Bonds admits steroid use! Story on ESPN.
lonroy
Posts: 77
in Sports Talk
This is from the headlines on "More Bondshells" on ESPN website currently. Go to site to see entire story.
Barry Bonds:
"You're talking about something that wasn't even illegal at the time,'' Bonds said. "All this stuff about supplements, protein shakes, whatever. Man, it's not like this is the Olympics. We don't train four years for, like, a 10-second (event). We go 162 games. You've got to come back day after day after day. We're entertainers. If I can't go out there and somebody pays $60 for a ticket, and I'm not in the lineup, who's getting cheated? Not me. There are far worse things like cocaine, heroin and those types of things."
"So we all make mistakes. We all do things. We need to turn the page. We need to forget about the past and let us play the game. We're entertainers. Let us entertain."
Sounds like an admittance of steroid use to me. He won't actually say "I did steroids" but when you look at what he is saying it all makes sense. In the first paragraph I listed he is justifying why one would take steroids or any other supplements. In the 2nd para I listed he comes as close to admitting it as ever before.
Barry Bonds:
"You're talking about something that wasn't even illegal at the time,'' Bonds said. "All this stuff about supplements, protein shakes, whatever. Man, it's not like this is the Olympics. We don't train four years for, like, a 10-second (event). We go 162 games. You've got to come back day after day after day. We're entertainers. If I can't go out there and somebody pays $60 for a ticket, and I'm not in the lineup, who's getting cheated? Not me. There are far worse things like cocaine, heroin and those types of things."
"So we all make mistakes. We all do things. We need to turn the page. We need to forget about the past and let us play the game. We're entertainers. Let us entertain."
Sounds like an admittance of steroid use to me. He won't actually say "I did steroids" but when you look at what he is saying it all makes sense. In the first paragraph I listed he is justifying why one would take steroids or any other supplements. In the 2nd para I listed he comes as close to admitting it as ever before.
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He is a cheater plain and simple, they can all justify the rampant roid use any way they want.
"It wasn't illegal" (maybe not in MLB but everywhere else it was - murder isn't illegal in MLB either.....)
"we are entertainers" (and this means you should cheat??? I fail to understand this logic)
I can't wait to see him break Aaron's record and hear all the comments the sports announcers will say about how great Bonds is and how he is the "best ever." Every year, every homerun, we have to hear about him being the best player ever.
This is the ESPN sportsclip generation where the only great players are the guys we see on TV every day or on ESPN every night.
What a joke.
<< <i>Wondo - have a drink. Ruth has never been accused of doing anything other than that. Of course, this was not performance enchancing.
Just pointing out a well known fact. I would argue that mentally, it was performance enhancing. Bill James writes a persuasive article (centered around Darrel Porter), which describes the drug of choice aiding in themental/confidence level of the individual.
I believe it's true in Porter's case, not Ruth's. Just pointing out that if the contemporary laws were enforced, Ruth would have spent more time in jail than on the ballfield.
Bonds' situation is much more difficult. When were steroids officially prohibited by MLB? When were the amphetimines of Rose's time officially banned (pete was a notorious speeder according to Bouton)? Gaylord Perry made a career out of cheating, but then he was a good ole boy. I say, do not detract from Bonds' accomplishments, but rather detract from the man.
Also is that cheating (if so, how come no one talks about that) and would it cancel out a batter's advantage if a juiced pitcher faced a juiced batter?
<< <i>Does anyone think that pitchers are not taking steroids too?
Also is that cheating (if so, how come no one talks about that) and would it cancel out a batter's advantage if a juiced pitcher faced a juiced batter? >>
Absolutely.
Look at Clemens, Schilling and Gange. The Red Sox thought he was done, yet he's come back even stronger towards the end of his career? And I think a heck of a lot more pitchers are/were juiced than anyone thinks. You don't pick up 6, 7 MPH on your stuff in the middle of your career.
I think you will see a significant boost in home run and overall power numbers this year, as most pitchers who were using stop.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wondo - have a drink. Ruth has never been accused of doing anything other than that. Of course, this was not performance enchancing.
Just pointing out a well known fact. I would argue that mentally, it was performance enhancing. Bill James writes a persuasive article (centered around Darrel Porter), which describes the drug of choice aiding in themental/confidence level of the individual.
I believe it's true in Porter's case, not Ruth's. Just pointing out that if the contemporary laws were enforced, Ruth would have spent more time in jail than on the ballfield.
Bonds' situation is much more difficult. When were steroids officially prohibited by MLB? When were the amphetimines of Rose's time officially banned (pete was a notorious speeder according to Bouton)? Gaylord Perry made a career out of cheating, but then he was a good ole boy. I say, do not detract from Bonds' accomplishments, but rather detract from the man. >>
This is quite possibly the dumbest argument I have ever heard while comparing Ruth and Bonds..and other players and their habits.
When Ruth played he drank alcohol a lot. So what. It was a detractor, plain and simple. Schience proves this. Ruth missed many games over his career from stomach ailments and other sickness/pains associated to his nightlife and his drinking. To accomplish what he did, while polluting his body the way he did is truly amazing.
Bond's many accomplishments over the last 6 seasons have been aided by his use of illegal substances, to include growth hormones and steroids. He took steroids. That is a fact. The Grand Jury testimony proves this because once he admitted what he did take, he was officially informed by the investigators that those supplements were steroids and were part of the BALCO line of goodies on the market. So whether he knew or didn't know (who really believes he didn't know?)...HE TOOK STEROIDS. Before you say "it was not illegal" like ol' BALCO Bonds keeps saying now that we know the truth, once again you would be wrong. Maybe MLB did not have a policy testing players with banned substances but they were illegal in the real world, in our society.
I heard someone say that murder is not illegal in MLB either.......doesn't mean players can do it.
Bonds is a cheater and Babe Ruth was not. Even setting that aside, Ruth's career still dwarfs Bonds. Ruth did what he did during the dead ball era. He changed the game forever. Bonds did what he did during the Longball era where everybody was hitting 50-60 homeruns a year.
For the first 130+ years in MLB history, only 2 men hit 60 or more homers. Ruth in '27 with 60 and Maris in '61 with 61.
From 1998 to 2004 there have been 6 individual 60+ homerun seasons (Sosa 3 times, Mcgwire 2 times, Bonds 1 time). And 2 of those were 70+ homer seasons.
Who really thinks this was an amazing anomoly? Some sort of weird coincidence. Hardly. This is the juiced ball steroid era and the offensive explosion of numbers across the board prove this hands down. Look what Bonds did his first 12 seasons in the league and look at the seasons after that. His numbers shot up while everyone else's numbers shot up. The year ('98) Mcgwire and Sosa topped 60 there was 5 or 10 guys in the 50's as well. Just 10 years before that nobody was hitting 50 homers. From 1977 to 1990 nobody hit 50...not ONCE in that whole span of time until Cecil Fielder did it at the end of the 1990 season.
Babe Ruth's accomplishments are absolutely legendary in every respect. Every year we have to hear about Bonds being being the "best ever" by the press. If they say it enough, people will believe it.
I agree with mintluster when he says this is the ESPN generation and we have no ESPN clips of Ruth's dominance to view. But everytime we turn around we get to see a juiced ball hit by a guy on steroids into the water of a park that has a right field line of 309 feet.........
Wondo's argument was pretty absurd. Alcohol helped Ruth? Are you kidding?
Bonds is a cheater. Everyone knows it, but some people have a hard time accepting it.
I will always recognize the homerun leaders as Aaron 755 and Maris 61. I don't care what MLB record books say.
You gotta stand up for what you believe in.
Steroids in baseball got people back in the seats after the strike.
True - but Ruth never faced 100 MPH pitching, todays closers or juiced pitchers! You can't compare eras or conditions. I don't like that Bonds is doing something (steroids, HGH or both) but so are the pitchers.
<< <i>
True - but Ruth never faced 100 MPH pitching, todays closers or juiced pitchers! You can't compare eras or conditions. I don't like that Bonds is doing something (steroids, HGH or both) but so are the pitchers. >>
Yeah, he just played in some massive parks, and a dead ball era when the next guy behind him was him 1/3 of the home runs he was.
Ruth didn't have the benefit of today's professional trainers, the information on training regiments or nutrition, yet he DOMINATED.
Bonds is a child attempting to be the man that Ruth was (and sadly, he will never be 1/10th the player Ruth was).
<< <i>True - but Ruth never faced 100 MPH pitching, todays closers or juiced pitchers! You can't compare eras or conditions. Yeah, he just played in some massive parks, and a dead ball era when the next guy behind him was him 1/3 of the home runs he was.
Ruth didn't have the benefit of today's professional trainers, the information on training regiments or nutrition, yet he DOMINATED. >>
Ruth dominated in a segregated world. if he played against the blacks of the era he certainly would have been good, but not the legend. Now all we really know is that he is the best player of a geeky "all white boy" league (where teams threw games for bookies).
<< <i>Ruth dominated in a segregated world. if he played against the blacks of the era he certainly would have been good, but not the legend. Now all we really know is that he is the best player of a geeky "all white boy" league (where teams threw games for bookies). >>
You really think it would have made a difference? Look at today's dominant pitchers...how many aren't white? Not trying to sound racist or anything of that nature (I'm not), but name off the most dominating pitchers of this era...they are all white.
Even had the Babe played in a segregated world, his numbers would have been the same.
<< <i>Look at today's dominant pitchers...how many aren't white? >>
It's a different era now. There aren't that many great black pitchers because there aren't that many black ball players. They are now choosing different sports- more so then in Ruth's era. ESPN ran an article on the lack of black pitchers few years ago when Dontrelle Willis broke through. It was interesting - one thing I remember is that a lot of the gifted pitching talents have personal pitching coaches, etc. Those were not accessible to Dontrelle.
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Regarding Ruth never facing 100 mph pitchers...Walter Johnson wasn't called the Big Train for nothin. Before rapid expansion there were only 16 teams back in Ruth's day. Seven other teams you faced for 154 games. That means you faced a well rested top four starter every game. All games were day games too, no night games where Ruth was able to sleep off a hangover and wake up in time for the 7 pm first pitch. That means the fielding wasn't watered down either like it is today.
It is a crime black players weren't able to play in the majors back then. There would have been a few black pitchers that would have been stars like Satchel Paige and Leroy Matlock. James 'Cool Papa' Bell and Josh Gibson certainly would have been stars. These are just a few that are popularly known among many others.
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<< <i>
<< <i>True - but Ruth never faced 100 MPH pitching, todays closers or juiced pitchers! You can't compare eras or conditions. Yeah, he just played in some massive parks, and a dead ball era when the next guy behind him was him 1/3 of the home runs he was.
Ruth didn't have the benefit of today's professional trainers, the information on training regiments or nutrition, yet he DOMINATED. >>
Ruth dominated in a segregated world. if he played against the blacks of the era he certainly would have been good, but not the legend. Now all we really know is that he is the best player of a geeky "all white boy" league (where teams threw games for bookies). >>
...nice try. You cannot back any of this up with numbers. Even if blacks played back then, it's not like there would have been a black pitcher to face every single night. And it's a real longshot to say that Ruth would not be a legend if blacks played in MLB during that era. Who knows, maybe his numbers would be better. Maybe a little less. It's just plain silly to say that he would not be a legend if he hit against Satchel Paige once a month. Just plain silly...and idiotic.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ruth dominated in a segregated world. if he played against the blacks of the era he certainly would have been good, but not the legend. Now all we really know is that he is the best player of a geeky "all white boy" league (where teams threw games for bookies). >>
You really think it would have made a difference? Look at today's dominant pitchers...how many aren't white? Not trying to sound racist or anything of that nature (I'm not), but name off the most dominating pitchers of this era...they are all white.
Even had the Babe played in a segregated world, his numbers would have been the same. >>
Exactly my point. Today's MLB alone suggest that Ruth's numbers would not have been hurt by playing against a black (or any minority) pitcher once in a while. Most pitchers are still white. If you check all the rosters I bet 75% of pitchers are white (just a guess). Back then there would have been as many or less black pitchers if they were allowed to play.
This argument is one of the dumbest I have ever heard to discredit Ruth's accomplishments, and sadly it is usually brought up by someone black. My point to this is that it is a far-fetched argument to weigh down Ruth's legendary accomplishments so a player like BALCO Bonds can start being compared to the Babe. It's sad really because this is what it must come down to for someone to actually think Bonds compares to Ruth. Look at Bond's playoff numbers compared to Ruth (as a hitter AND as a pitcher...take your pick). Look how many WS titles Ruth CONTRIBUTED to winning (again....as a pitcher for the Red Sox or as a hitter for the Yankees...take your pick).
Ruth was the first player in history to hit 30, 40, 50, and 60 homeruns in a season. This was in an era when guys were hitting 10 homeruns a year and winning the homerun title, before the Babe picked up a bat. I read somewhere that when Ruth hit 60 homers in 1927 he hit 14% of all league homeruns. For a player to hit 14% of the league homeruns today, he would have to hit over 300 in a season!!! Over 300!!! If that does not show how far apart Ruth was from his peers, I don't know what does. There is NO COMPARISONS. NONE. Look at the lifetime batting averages: Ruth .342, Bonds .300...I could go on and on for days....if someone really researches this for themselves, you will easily see there is no comparison.
But we will hear them all day long on ESPN over the next 2 years. Get ready for it. There is no avoiding it.
Bond isn't even one of the top 5 players of all-time.
Babe Ruth would have been just as legendary if blacks were allowed to play in MLB back in that era.
He was so far ahead of his peers that for someone to say a black player would have been as good or better is just guessing. It's a wild guess and cannot be proven. Would have been great to see, but it didn't happen and it takes nothing away from Ruth's numbers. How will we ever know what Bonds would have actually accomplished if he were not juiced up over the last 6 or 7 seasons?
Comparing eras in MLB is nearly impossible because the game changes so much (look at the 1980's compared to the 1990's for example, and that is just one decade apart, but HUGE differences thanks to smaller ballparks being built, juiced balls, juiced players, luxary transportation and hotel accomodations, personal trainers, and more teams which = watered down pitching....plus more factors as well.
Although we cannot compare eras. We can easily compare a player in an era to all of his peers and see just how dominant a player was or is today. When you break it down that way and compare Babe Ruth to his peers of his era, Ruth truly shines as the greatest baseball player ever, and one of the greatest athletes ever for the way he dominated his sport and changed it forever.
Bonds has done great in his era, but so have a LOT OF OTHER PLAYERS. The homerun numbers alone explain a lot about the current era and how everyone is benefiting while nobody clearly stands out as truly dominant. Guys hitting 40-50 homeruns all the time. Multiple players hitting over 60 homers in one season (1998) when just 10 years before players would lead the league with 36 homeruns. 2 players hitting over 70 within 3 seasons apart. All these offensive numbers alone show this era and explain a lot about the players accomplishments within this era.
When you go back and research Ruth's eras and his accomplishments it is absolutely mind boggling what he did and how frequently he did it. Plus his trump card in an "who's the greatest of all-time" argument is always the fact that he was adominating left handed pitcher for 5 seasons before he became a full time hitter and change the game and rewrote the record books. Bonds never gives Ruth credit because he is an egotistical subjective fool who really thinks in his mind he is the greatest. This is why he went to such great lengths to extend his aging process and ability to play by taking illegal substances (steroids and growth hormones).
You are 100% right when you say we will hear about this in the coming months and next 2 years. Leading up to the magical #755 we will hear about Bonds being the best ever and after he hits #756 we will continue to hear it.
This is life though, and this is the media for you. Bonds plays in our lifetime and it is always easier to believe our players of today are the greatest ever. With some players (Jordan and Gretzky for example) it may be true and easily proven, but with others, like Bonds, it is a big stretch to call him the greatest, but it is a stretch they will try for. I agree also about his ranking. I put him in the top 10 of all-time and even then it was hard for me to do it because I am always thinking of the steroids now and I don't know how to factor that into my selection criteria. It is very difficult to rank them while taking into account the performance enhancing drugs they used.
Ruth's statistics are so much better as both a pitcher and hitter than his contemporaries...that it is ungodly. That is why he is the greatest player of all times.
The same will not hold true for Mays, DiMaggio, and Mantle 50 years from now.
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I disagree. Baseball is undergoing some major, major scrutiny here. Besides steroids, there is also the "smaller ballpark" theory. Although not as big as the steroid scandals, there is a lot more power now. These guys are LEGENDS, and they never die.
Best of luck....see you all around the boards!
He will never win a title because he does not make other players better. He loves himself and he loves all his MVP's and records. That's it. Don't believe me? Go ask Gary Sheffield, Jeff Kent, or anyone else that knows Bonds well or has played with Bonds.
He will end it all with the Homerun records, but luckily, most people will know it was a big scam.
A scam fostered and accepted by MLB and the profits they enjoyed while the records were falling by juiced up players.
This is a black eye MLB will always have for this era and they fully 100% deserve it.
This will be interesting to see how MLB handles this after the BALCO Trial and it's details start rolling out.
I am sure they will act like it has not happened, ignore it, and just hope everyone applauds and cheers when he breaks the record.
MLB is good at ignoring problems and sweeping them under the carpet.
Everyone keeps running around focusing all the attention on Mark Mcgwire now. This guy has been retired for 4 seasons already.
What do people think Barry Bonds would have said at that hearing??? The SAME EXACT thing that Mcgwire did probably.
It's almost like this was planned purposly to divert attention away from BALCO Bonds.
Well, Mcgwire is not the one sitting on 703 Homeruns with Ruth and Aaron dead on his sights......
That makes a BIG difference!!
Should Mcgwire go to the Hall???
Better question is, should Barry Bonds go to the Hall??
Either keep them ALL out or let them ALL in.......they are all cheaters.
He sat there with his son and basically blamed the MEDIA for all of his problems that he brought on himself.
What a good example to set for your child. Mess up and then blame others, always blame others.
This guy has been blaming others for his problems since Day 1 in the league.
What a Pity Party he threw for himself in that interview.
Sad, truly sad......