Question about a St. Gaudens $20 pattern

Longacre

I was reading a book last night (Taxay's US Mint History) and it made a brief reference to a St. Gaudens "pattern" that was struck sometime between 1907 and 1908. Supposedly the coin was a lot thicker than normal, and the piece was smaller than normal. It stated that about 8 were struck, and two went into the mint cabinet, and the others were melted, except for one piece that somehow ended up with a New York dealer. Does anyone know anything about this coin? I don't have the book in front of me so I can't give more details, but that is what I remember about it. Thanks.

saintguru

It was a Saint pattern that was struck on an Eagle sized planchet only about 40% thicker to make up for the weight. It could never have been minted, because of a law that prohibited two coins of the same size and different denominations being made. It can be seen in the book "100 Rarest Coins" or whatever it's called...

weresteve

<< <i>It was a Saint pattern that was struck on an Eagle sized planchet only about 40% thicker to make up for the weight. It could never have been minted, because of a law that prohibited two coins of the same size and different denominations being made. It can be seen in the book "100 Rarest Coins" or whatever it's called... >>



Almost qualifies as a piedfort if it had been the same denomination as an eagle.

boiler78

The coin is essentially a "mini ultra High Relief" and they are something to behold. My second favorite gold pattern behind the unique Indian double eagle also by St Gaudens.

saintguru

Thank you, "Mr. BigShot I've Seen Them All Because I'm a Smithsonian Nerd"!!

saintguru

Oh...and that would be the Jud 1776 pattern...that you referred to,...

boiler78

Jay- Actually it is the J1905 in the new Judd book.

Ed62

If you do locate that third "piedfort" (or is it "piefort"?) St. Gaudens mini $20.00, please let me know. I am saving my allowance.

tradedollarnut

It will forever be J-1776 in my mind!

boiler78

Bruce- prefer the old Judd number as well.

MacCrimmon

The uber-freak of a coin? (medal!!) is at the bottom of the page

coinguy1

I know where that awesome beauty is. And, if someone will pay me enough......


I still wont be able to get it for you.

Edited to add: I was speaking of J-1776

MrEureka

Actually, it's J-1917. The J-1905 (formerly J-1776) has an Indian Head and is of normal diameter and thickness for a $20.

tradedollarnut

My second favorite gold pattern behind the unique Indian double eagle also by St Gaudens.

Stop trying to confuse us, Andy! We's talking about the big one.

airplanenut

<< <i>Thank you, "Mr. BigShot I've Seen Them All Because I'm a Smithsonian Nerd"!! >>

I held it, too

It's a fantastic little piece... when you pick it up, it's a LOT heavier than you'd expect. Plus, it's high/ultra high relief, and just looks incredible.

MrEureka

Stop trying to confuse us, Andy! We's talking about the big one.

TDN - So I shouldn't offer you the reduced diameter Indian head $20 piefort?

(You have seen it, haven't you? I still can't believe Laura let me buy that beauty out from under her!)

Dahlonega

Agree, the big one will always be Judd-1776
In my opinion the most valuable US coin bar none...many times when I think I know something or am advising someone regarding a coin I remember a few decades ago when passed on this coin for slightly over 200k.

techeff

saintguru

Hey Mark. I know where the J-1776 (the BIG one) is too! And a lot of other magnificent gold coins too!!

oreville

You all should be ashamed of yourselves. You all talk the talk but how many of you have walked the walk============= to visit Saint Gaudens National Historic site in New Hampshire?



I finally better get there this summer. No more excuses!!!!

Coinosaurus

The Judd-1917 (double thickness) is listed and plated in the 1914 catalog of the US mint collection. According to this source there were only two of them, both in the mint collection.

RKKay

They're both in the SI Numismatic Collection.

RWB

Longacre,
The answer to your question begins on page 200 of RAC 1905-1908.

Have fun!

tradedollarnut

<< <i>They're both in the SI Numismatic Collection. >>



I thought the ANS has one???

RWB

Only the two pieces in the Philadelphia Mint Collection, transferred to the Smithsonian in 1923, survived. All others were systematically located and melted on orders of Mint Director Leach. The last to be destroyed was one held by mint engraver Charles Barber (who owned 8 !!! of the EHR $20s).

lloydmincy

Smithsonian has both. One is pictured on the left.

RKKay

J-1917






All pix courtesy of Smithsonian Institution, National Numismatic Collection

Longacre

<< <i>Longacre,
The answer to your question begins on page 200 of RAC 1905-1908.

Have fun! >>




I'm gettin' there!

RWB

Note: On the photo above showing three MCMVII $20, the coins on the left and right are from the extremely high relief models delivered in December 1906. These are experimental (or pattern) pieces struck in February 1907. The coin in the center is a high relief circulation strike and not a pattern or experimental piece.

IGWT

I love this medal that Keith posted. It undoubtedly depicts Saint-Gaudens after an encounter with C. Barber.



<< <i> >>