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"Mint wrapped rolls" info taken from this forum
mrdq
Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭
From my website
MRUNCLENICK
What is the difference in the type of rolls-Bank, shotgun, SF String +Brinks? Is one type better than the
others? Which have the best quality coins? Thank You
Coulport
What it says on the paper indicates nothing about what is inside the roll. We sell a lot of state quarter rolls and I can't tell you how many requests I get for N.F. String and Sons rolls. Well, N.F. String and Sons happens to be ONE of several companies that make rolls of paper for wrapping machines. They don't wrap coins at all, just print the paper. If you want some coin wrapping supplies with their name on it, just visit their website at http://www.nfstring.com/ . A number of other companies also print the paper rolls.
The wrapping is typically done by armored car companies like Brinks, Dunbar, Wells Fargo, etc. Some of them custom order paper printed with their names on them. Occasionally, some banks will even wrap rolls (but this is very rare these days) and may even have paper printed with their names (even rarer). It is virtually all done by the armored car companies who pick up coin from the Federal Reserve bank, take it to their warehouse where it is counted, wrapped, etc. and then transport it to the requesting bank. The bank pays the Fed face value for the coin and a fee to the armored car company for handling and transporting it. Remember that everyone involved is interested in making change available for commerce. None of these people have collectors in mind. Thus, coin from circulation (such as CoinStar machines or vending machine routes) is often dumped in the wrapping machine hopper with BU coins from the Fed. Thus, the only thing you can know for about an unopened roll is by looking at the one side showing of the two coins on the ends. The other, as well as the other coins inside, could be anything.
The term shotgun is actually frequently misused today. The term originally referred to a roll of double length. That is, $20 of quarters, $20 of halves, $4 of nickels, etc. Wrapping machines can be set to wrap these double long rolls. They never were used very much and today I think casinos are about the only place they are used. I occasionally come across an old roll that has twice the coins but it is rare. Today the term has come to describe a roll with machine rolled ends. Perhaps that is because the ends of these rolls resemble the business end of a shotgun shell. It actually is probably more descriptive than the original use of the term so guess it doesn't matter that it has evolved.
People also use the term "bank roll" to describe these machine wrapped rolls. However, in proper use it would be one of the rolls with a bank name printed on it. As mentioned above, that basically does not happen today but there are plenty of old rolls around that were bank wrapped.
Some people also use the term "Fed wrapped" to describe these same rolls. They too misunderstand that
virtually all modern coinage is wrapped by the armored car companies. The Fed handles coin in huge bulk bags.
Hope that helps. Any more questions, just post again. I'll try to check back from time to time.
WH
clackamas
Wayne - Where is the best place to pick up rolls? Can the original Fed bags be purchased? Is so where? I
know the mint issues bags and rolls but the premium is not really worth it. The problem with modern Bu rolls is that the coins have been so many machines that a MS-65 is hard to find, let alone a 67 or forbid a 68, especially with Jefferson's.
wayneherndon
Until just recently the bags handled by the Fed were actually sewn shut at the Mint and are known as
"Mint-sewn bags". Those bags contained 5000 cents, 4000 nickels, 5000 dimes, 4000 quarters or 2000 half dollars. Now, the mint is shipping in much larger bags. I don't remember the exact size of the new bulk bags but it is several multiples of the old sizes. One could often get the old bags by finding a friendly bag teller or armored car worker who would order and hold the bags for you. The new bags have to be moved with forklifts. Until a few months ago, I could get bags from banks all the time. Now with the larger sizes, I have to go with rolls.
The problem you are seeing with the coins, however, is not all due to the machines. The bagged coins are not that much better and if they've been tossed around a bit could even be worse. The fact is that most circulation strikes put out by the Mint that are not that great. The average is well below MS 65. That is why the 67s and 68s cost what they do. One has to look at a lot of coins to find one.
WH
cladking
When coins were rolled from the old bags there were usually only 6 or 7 die pairs represented in each
roll. There probably will be more now with the new bags.
A single die will make nearly identicle coins for some time, so if one is a gem, there will be more. These
coins are then bagged together with the output of a few other dies. There is a lot of similarity even be-
tween one bag and the next typically. Wait until you get a nice gem in change then ask where the shop
does it's banking. They'll have a lot more just like it.
The mint doesn't separate coins by quality, or direct them in any consistent pattern. Early releases are
not likely to be significantly better than late ones because the high speed dies wear out so fast. Very
few real nice gems are made for circulation and intercepting them is a logistical nightmare. Do try, as
these are not quite the same coins which appear in mint sets. Mint set coins are made under higher pressure with new dies. These aren't always alligned a lot better circ strikes though. The coins are washed and dried and some care is taken to prevent marks. If you are looking for quantities of gems, it's probably easier to get them in mint sets. About 2% of mint set coins are gem.
Very few varieties appear in mint sets and when they do they'll always exist in large number. Even a variety which is scarce in mint sets will appear in about 5,000 sets. Some varieties which don't appear
in mint sets had mintages as low as 100,000 and virtually the entire number were worn in circulation.
MikeinTyler
I recently had my bank to order me some half dollars from the Fed. The minimum order was $1000 face value and 8 cents per roll for shipping, so the cost of the coins was $1008.00.
Mike
From my website
MRUNCLENICK
What is the difference in the type of rolls-Bank, shotgun, SF String +Brinks? Is one type better than the
others? Which have the best quality coins? Thank You
Coulport
What it says on the paper indicates nothing about what is inside the roll. We sell a lot of state quarter rolls and I can't tell you how many requests I get for N.F. String and Sons rolls. Well, N.F. String and Sons happens to be ONE of several companies that make rolls of paper for wrapping machines. They don't wrap coins at all, just print the paper. If you want some coin wrapping supplies with their name on it, just visit their website at http://www.nfstring.com/ . A number of other companies also print the paper rolls.
The wrapping is typically done by armored car companies like Brinks, Dunbar, Wells Fargo, etc. Some of them custom order paper printed with their names on them. Occasionally, some banks will even wrap rolls (but this is very rare these days) and may even have paper printed with their names (even rarer). It is virtually all done by the armored car companies who pick up coin from the Federal Reserve bank, take it to their warehouse where it is counted, wrapped, etc. and then transport it to the requesting bank. The bank pays the Fed face value for the coin and a fee to the armored car company for handling and transporting it. Remember that everyone involved is interested in making change available for commerce. None of these people have collectors in mind. Thus, coin from circulation (such as CoinStar machines or vending machine routes) is often dumped in the wrapping machine hopper with BU coins from the Fed. Thus, the only thing you can know for about an unopened roll is by looking at the one side showing of the two coins on the ends. The other, as well as the other coins inside, could be anything.
The term shotgun is actually frequently misused today. The term originally referred to a roll of double length. That is, $20 of quarters, $20 of halves, $4 of nickels, etc. Wrapping machines can be set to wrap these double long rolls. They never were used very much and today I think casinos are about the only place they are used. I occasionally come across an old roll that has twice the coins but it is rare. Today the term has come to describe a roll with machine rolled ends. Perhaps that is because the ends of these rolls resemble the business end of a shotgun shell. It actually is probably more descriptive than the original use of the term so guess it doesn't matter that it has evolved.
People also use the term "bank roll" to describe these machine wrapped rolls. However, in proper use it would be one of the rolls with a bank name printed on it. As mentioned above, that basically does not happen today but there are plenty of old rolls around that were bank wrapped.
Some people also use the term "Fed wrapped" to describe these same rolls. They too misunderstand that
virtually all modern coinage is wrapped by the armored car companies. The Fed handles coin in huge bulk bags.
Hope that helps. Any more questions, just post again. I'll try to check back from time to time.
WH
clackamas
Wayne - Where is the best place to pick up rolls? Can the original Fed bags be purchased? Is so where? I
know the mint issues bags and rolls but the premium is not really worth it. The problem with modern Bu rolls is that the coins have been so many machines that a MS-65 is hard to find, let alone a 67 or forbid a 68, especially with Jefferson's.
wayneherndon
Until just recently the bags handled by the Fed were actually sewn shut at the Mint and are known as
"Mint-sewn bags". Those bags contained 5000 cents, 4000 nickels, 5000 dimes, 4000 quarters or 2000 half dollars. Now, the mint is shipping in much larger bags. I don't remember the exact size of the new bulk bags but it is several multiples of the old sizes. One could often get the old bags by finding a friendly bag teller or armored car worker who would order and hold the bags for you. The new bags have to be moved with forklifts. Until a few months ago, I could get bags from banks all the time. Now with the larger sizes, I have to go with rolls.
The problem you are seeing with the coins, however, is not all due to the machines. The bagged coins are not that much better and if they've been tossed around a bit could even be worse. The fact is that most circulation strikes put out by the Mint that are not that great. The average is well below MS 65. That is why the 67s and 68s cost what they do. One has to look at a lot of coins to find one.
WH
cladking
When coins were rolled from the old bags there were usually only 6 or 7 die pairs represented in each
roll. There probably will be more now with the new bags.
A single die will make nearly identicle coins for some time, so if one is a gem, there will be more. These
coins are then bagged together with the output of a few other dies. There is a lot of similarity even be-
tween one bag and the next typically. Wait until you get a nice gem in change then ask where the shop
does it's banking. They'll have a lot more just like it.
The mint doesn't separate coins by quality, or direct them in any consistent pattern. Early releases are
not likely to be significantly better than late ones because the high speed dies wear out so fast. Very
few real nice gems are made for circulation and intercepting them is a logistical nightmare. Do try, as
these are not quite the same coins which appear in mint sets. Mint set coins are made under higher pressure with new dies. These aren't always alligned a lot better circ strikes though. The coins are washed and dried and some care is taken to prevent marks. If you are looking for quantities of gems, it's probably easier to get them in mint sets. About 2% of mint set coins are gem.
Very few varieties appear in mint sets and when they do they'll always exist in large number. Even a variety which is scarce in mint sets will appear in about 5,000 sets. Some varieties which don't appear
in mint sets had mintages as low as 100,000 and virtually the entire number were worn in circulation.
MikeinTyler
I recently had my bank to order me some half dollars from the Fed. The minimum order was $1000 face value and 8 cents per roll for shipping, so the cost of the coins was $1008.00.
Mike
From my website
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Comments
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
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Thanks for the post...you answered alot of questions that have been rolling around in my mind.....now there's room to remember what my wife tells me! UH-OH!!!
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
Thanks for all the great information!
Wow! I posted that several years ago. One time I did that I got 20 rolls of 1991-D's. That was a good day
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<< <i>rolls rolls rolls >>
The new finish for mint sets has me thinking the exact same thoughts.