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Grades & Story Revealed: Which 1880-S Morgan Dollar Do You Prefer & Why?? -- Guess the Grade

StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
Which of the following (2) 1880-S Morgan dollars do you prefer and why?? I am working to improve my coin photographing technique, and feel that I've just about got it right... How does the quality of the photos look to you??

You may also guess the grades if you'd like... Thanks for your participation!!

Links to High Resolution Photos:

1880-S Obv #1
1880-S Rev #1

1880-S Obv #2
1880-S Rev #2


Here are the lower resolution photos to give you a side-by side visual comparison of both coins...

1880-S Morgan #1 - PCGS MS-65 PL
imageimage

1880-S Morgan #2 - PCGS MS-66 PL
imageimage

Stuart

Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"

Comments

  • ddbirdddbird Posts: 3,168 ✭✭✭
    Too tired to guess the grades but #1 has more frost...image
    image
    ">"    http://www.cashcrate.com/5663377"
  • TheRavenTheRaven Posts: 4,143 ✭✭✭✭
    1st one if had to pick

    Grades MS-64DMPL
    Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
  • JrGMan2004JrGMan2004 Posts: 7,557 ✭
    Obv #2, Rev #1... image Overall... #2... image
    -George
    42/92
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭
    I can't see anything in either image that makes it stand out from the other one. Both look the same to me.
  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    Like the cheek on 2 better a w/few less abrasions. The date is common and graded hard so I'll go MS64 probably PL. The other may 64 too as it's very frosty.
    morgannut2
  • mathprofmathprof Posts: 51
    Pretty close, but I prefer #2 based on the pictures.

    Grade: 63PLs on a "bad" day, 64DMPLs on a "better" day.
  • ibzman350ibzman350 Posts: 5,315 ✭
    Stuart,

    the first pic shows the hits more so then the 2nd pic, but it also shows the frost better,

    the 2nd pic shows the hits somewhat less but also shows less frost, to me itza toss up, I like both pics equally well.

    Which pic shows what the coin looks like in hand.

    My wag is 64PL.


    Herb
    Remember it's not how you pick your nose that matters, it's where you put the boogers.
    imageimageimage
  • MORGANHUNTER2MORGANHUNTER2 Posts: 4,473 ✭
    Sionce I am quite familiar as to what you are 'hoarding', #1- a 64pl, #2- 63 pl,

    I hope you have these out this afternoon.
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The poll voting results and the additional posts with commentary are very interesting so far, and about what I had expected. Please continue to vote, and those of you who have already voted please also post your personal commentary comparing both coins.

    There is a real reason why I have asked you to share your opinion on these 2 Morgans, which I will reveal after receiving additional poll votes and comment posts.

    Thanks very much for your participation. I value my fellow Forum members' opinions.


    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • dizzleccdizzlecc Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭
    Ouch, you guys are tough with the technical grading. Especially Morganhunter2 with a 63. The fields are clean for both coins which should but them up a grade.

    The photos are larger than actually size so the scuff marks appear larger than actual.

    I prefer coin#2 with less marks and solid mirrors.

    Both are nice gem examples.
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295 ✭
    I forgot to guess the grades last night. I would go 64 PL on both.
  • dan1ecudan1ecu Posts: 1,573
    I'd say they're both MS65 DMPL. I like the first better.

    Dan
    Dan McInnes

    mcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu">dmcinnes@mailclerk.ecok.edu
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    DizzleCC brings up a good point that the image links are high resolution and tend to accentuate relatively minor contact marks.

    Here are some lower resolution smaller (<50 KByte) file size versions of the same images, which we are more used to typically seeing...
    to give you a side-by side visual comparison of both coins...

    1880-S Morgan #1
    imageimage

    1880-S Morgan #2
    imageimage


    Links to High Resolution Photos:

    1880-S Obv #1
    1880-S Rev #1

    1880-S Obv #2
    1880-S Rev #2

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • mgoodm3mgoodm3 Posts: 17,497 ✭✭✭
    It was hard to compare on the previous. On these I still like #1. Looks a little frostier. Very similar coins really.
    coinimaging.com/my photography articles Check out the new macro lens testing section
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    #2...More defination on the wings & the obverse defines greater mirror depth. JMOimage

    Oh...and both look 65 PL to me.


    Tom
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please continue to vote in the poll and also please share your grading comparison comments via posts to this thread. Thanks!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • OneyOney Posts: 1,384 ✭✭✭✭
    I would have to say #2 because of the cleaner cheek. I agree with a DMPL and MS64.....great coins!
    Brian
  • TrooperTrooper Posts: 1,450 ✭
    I'm partial to image 1...

    I'll go 64 dmpl also, like may have guessed...

    Tom
  • ultradmpldollarsultradmpldollars Posts: 899 ✭
    #1 - 65PL ?
    #2 - 66PL ?

    Personally, I like the loooks of #1, but #2 appears to have fewer marks on the cheek.

    dan
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks for all of your votes and also your posts. Since most have had a chance to participate, I will give you a first hint prior to disclosing the grades:

    One coin is graded higher then the other image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    TTT for the Sunday night crowd for one last time, before I post the grades on Monday morning... image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks to all who voted in my coin preference poll and also to those who commented via adding posts to this thread. Congratulations to UltraDMPLDollars (Dan) who nailed both grades precisely!!! You win the honor of gaining the forum's respect for having a darned good grading eye!!!

    As usual forum members are very perceptive. Many of you were even able to accurately detect very subtle differences in the number of contact marks between 2 coins that even look very similar in person (as witnessed by both DizzleCC & MorganHunter2) absed upon digital images shot using identical lighting.

    The statistics are interesting because 50% preferred the MS-66 PL Morgan, 32% preferred the MS-65 PL Morgan (which looks almost identical), and 18% said that both appeared identical.

    The PCGS assigned grades for these two coins are as follows:

    1880-S Morgan #1 - PCGS MS-65 PL
    imageimage

    1880-S Morgan #2 - PCGS MS-66 PL
    imageimage


    Links to High Resolution Photos:

    1880-S Obv #1
    1880-S Rev #1

    1880-S Obv #2
    1880-S Rev #2

    My reason for posting these photos and for requesting your input in this poll is a real practical one. I have recently purchased both of these coins, and both absolutely blew me away with their powdery white frosty cameos and virtually DMPL watery reflective fields. Both coins appear to me to be virtual Cameo DMPL's.

    It is a no-brainer to keep the MS-65 PL ($200), but was worth a bit of thought as to whether or not to also keep the MS-66PL ($470). After thinking about it and examining both coins for a couple of days, I have (almost) finally decided to keep them both, because I think both are gorgeous, feel that they make great comparison coins, and estimate that their commercial market value should besomewhere in between prices for their PL and the DMPL designations -- for which both coins would be well-priced.

    I would welcome any additional comments that you may wish to offer. Thanks again for your participation in this non-scientific poll!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • eyoung429eyoung429 Posts: 6,374 ✭


    << <i>DizzleCC brings up a good point that the image links are high resolution and tend to accentuate relatively minor contact marks.

    Here are some lower resolution smaller (<50 KByte) file size versions of the same images, which we are more used to typically seeing...
    to give you a side-by side visual comparison of both coins...

    1880-S Morgan #1
    imageimage

    1880-S Morgan #2
    imageimage


    Hmmm, if it were up to me, I like the amount of frost on rev #1 but with the obv #2 for less breaks........

    Both would look good in any book!!!! (pst ....especially mine!)

    Beautiful coins Stuart!!!
    This is a very dumb ass thread. - Laura Sperber - Tuesday January 09, 2007 11:16 AM image

    Hell, I don't need to exercise.....I get enough just pushing my luck.
  • MORGANHUNTER2MORGANHUNTER2 Posts: 4,473 ✭
    I saw these 2 yesterday- and to be very honest- they look to be from the same roll or bag or lord knows- but the coins in hand look exactly alike. When I had both in hand I chose #1 over 2. They both looked to me to be DMPL, and was shocked to see them both as PL- but #1 had a much better look to it.

    I apologize to you stuart for being so harsh on my original post of the grade, and dizzle- remember grading is an opinion and I gave it for what I saw on screen.

    Folks in all reality- it tis better to have it in hand than on the screen- both are awesome looking coins- my true feeling is - Stuart walked with 2 great coins(need to figure how to get the 65 from him). I think the TPG undergraded both of them.
  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    So I guess my hidden agenda of convincing you to sell me one for MS-64PL money isn't going to work!! I actually am really surprised that the one I prefer got a 66 instead of 65, but perhaps your photos are tending to overshow abrasions that aren't that apparent to the eye when holding the coin. I wonder if there is a method that honors the coin's true surface, but doesn't have as much photographic contrast?
    morgannut2
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    eyoung429, MORGANHUNTER2 and morgannut2: Thanks for your posts stating your preferences and for providing your insights comparing my 2 Gem Prooflike 1880-S Morgan Dollars.

    As Wade stated, you must have the coins in hand and rotate them in the light to do a proper grading evaluation of them. Even with coins in hand, these 2 Morgans look very similar to one another. I think that PCGS got it right from the grading perspective because the MS-66 PL coin seems to have just a few less minor field ticks and bit fewer frost breaks than the MS-65 PL.

    In reality I am splitting hairs in trying to distinguish between these 2 coins because I feel that the MS-65 PL is a very high-end coin for the grade (propbably PQ), and the MS-66 PL is graded about right. I agree with Wade that both coins are deeply PL and compare favorably with other DMPL coins. The strong cameo contrast also helps to accentuate the PL fields giving both coins strikingly beautiful high eye-appeal.

    Together they make a very interesting grading test and comparison. In fact both coins were very recently graded. Their certification numbers indicate that they were graded only 454 coins apart. As Wade mentioned, perhaps they were submitted from the same bag or grouping of coins...

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    Kinda came close there meself, Stuart.image After a very costly lesson with Morgan dollars, I'm finally getting a close eye for grading them...I THINK.image


    Tom
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tom: Yes, your grading evaluation was very accurate and second only to UltraDMPLDollars (Dan's) correct answer. Well Done!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • MORGANHUNTER2MORGANHUNTER2 Posts: 4,473 ✭
    I have to image this up so others can see - this guy has an eye. I should of bought the 65 when I saw it the other day- now I'm in a battle tryin to figure a way of manuevering that into my set without the wife actually attempting the Bobbit trick on me. Ok stuart what's it gonna take- I do custom woodwork on homes ya know.....

    Have hammer...... will bang for the buck....image



  • StuartStuart Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wade: Thanks for your offer to trade labor for Morgan Dollars. I'll keep that in mind for future possible coin deals!!

    I agree with you that those 2 Gem Prooflike 1880-S Morgans are beautiful!! image

    Stuart

    Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal

    "Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    now I'm in a battle tryin to figure a way of manuevering that into my set without the wife actually attempting the Bobbit trick on me.

    image...I'm not alone.image



    Tom
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • JdurgJdurg Posts: 997 ✭
    WOW! I'd take either of them. (And I thought I had a nice 1880-S. lol). Both coins are downright gorgeous, but for some reason my eyes really liked Number 2 more than Number 1.
    I collect the elements on the periodic table, and some coins. I have a complete Roosevelt set, and am putting together a set of coins from 1880.
  • MORGANHUNTER2MORGANHUNTER2 Posts: 4,473 ✭
    Jd- good eye- but alas- the 65 is much nicer- I had it for dang near a half hour in MY HANDS. yum is just a verbal spirit that has been awakened.

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