Collectibles in general do well when discrectionary income is available to fuel the charge. We may have some brief ups and downs, but the overall health of the hobby is directly related to our economy.
I agree with the observation that collectors are considerably more astute than they were just a few years ago and are moving on the quality material. Now more than ever I think the advice to buy the best you can afford is not only good advice for coins, but is almost always good advice when making any purchase.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
<< <i>One dealer looked at my 09-S in 66RD which I asked 2300 for. After shuffling though his sheets he asked if he could show it to a friend. A couple minutes late he returned and handed it back: “I’m sorry, I thought it was a VDB.” >>
An 09-S VDB in 66RD for $2,300??? Clearly, that was a dealer that didn't have a clue. $2,300 is a great price for a 64RD. >>
Oh, I think the dealer had a clue. He was hoping for a rip. >>
His name wasn't Ira, was it? >>
I know you meant that as a joke, Barry, but you must remember, not all who view this forum know me and some may take that as a serious statement.
Those who DO know me would know that I generally pay for items I like well above typical dealer actual buy pricing and I certainly would not make a mistake between a 1909-S Lincoln and a 1909-S VDB. Moreover, I would not need the counsel of any other dealer to help me make a decision unless the coin is from a series from which I am not familiar and there's very few that would come under that category (only Patterns, Colonials and Tokens come to mind).
Again, I'm not angry with you, Barry. We've done business in the past and hopefully will in the future.
As for now, I better contact AH's att'y on Monday to see if he'd like another libel/slander case to prosecute
I walked the show on Thursday afternoon and on Saturday morning. I found an unusally high number of type coins in the cases. Most were reasonable grades that the average collector can buy, but I saw a LOT of extremely high grade (67/68) with high price tags sitting in cases. There were a couple of dealers that had a lot of type coin inventory in all grades certified and raw. They specifically told me that they were not buying any type coins unless they were spectacular. I had a 20c coin in XF totally original and a very nice 1866 nickel in AU and couldn't sell them.
I attended the Long Beach show and had a slightly different impression from Bear. There seemed to be lots of activity with a large number of coins changing hands. The high end dealers I spoke with seemed satisfied with the action although most say that they are doing more wholesale buying on the floor than retail selling. I do agree that the auction scene is crowded but with very stiff prices on the high end coins. I almost always end up with a significant invoice after major auctions but went empty handed. My auction catalogues are now causing back strain on the mail and Fed-X deliverers.There seems to be an increasing percentage of coins purchased from online bids although a number of dealers submit lists through this route. You can't help but admire the success of the major auction firms. Some are becoming very aggressive in searching out larger collections for future auctions. I do agree that there are some tired looking lots in some of the auctions and at these sales prices are sluggish. I predict that the upside registry pressures will peak out as the percentage of collectors that can attain distinction shrinks. It does seem that there is a limit to how far any market run will go and on reflection perhaps this one is mature. For those that do not like boom and bust scenerios, a pause to refresh would be welcomed.
Funny, I heard many dealers say this was their best Long Beach ever! The attendance on Saturday was huge! There was a lot of stuff in the auctions, but I think dealers are happy to see it. I do notice alot more low end coins (overgraded) in holders out there. This is typical as the nice stuff gets sold, the dregs lay around and that's what you see in the cases, for the most part. When you find a beautiful coin, correctly graded or rare, it's priced well above the greysheet. I bought a beautiful 1877 for over double greysheet and was happy to do it, of course it was spectacular.
<< <i>Funny, I hear many dealers say this was their best Long Beach ever! The attendance on Saturday was huge! >>
I agree. I actually worked this show (I even sold a 1908-S Indian to Eagle Eye!!!!!!!!) and it was really strong for all of the dealers I spoke to, including the one with whom I was working.
<< <i>Barry wrote: His name wasn't Ira, was it? >>
I know you meant that as a joke, Barry, but you must remember, not all who view this forum know me and some may take that as a serious statement.
Ira >>
Ira (Stein), You are right on one count and wrong on the other. I did mean it as a joke, however, you are not the Ira to whom I refer. My comment refers back to this thread, which involves another Ira (Meltzer).
They specifically told me that they were not buying any type coins unless they were spectacular. I had a 20c coin in XF totally original and a very nice 1866 nickel in AU and couldn't sell them.
That is concerning if it generally true. Some of my own purchases are funded, in part, with trade-ins or sales of current holdings. If the demand for these coins is low, I lose the funds and enthusiasm for additional future purchases. A vicious cycle.
<< <i>Barry wrote: His name wasn't Ira, was it? >>
I know you meant that as a joke, Barry, but you must remember, not all who view this forum know me and some may take that as a serious statement.
Ira >>
Ira (Stein), You are right on one count and wrong on the other. I did mean it as a joke, however, you are not the Ira to whom I refer. My comment refers back to this thread, which involves another Ira (Meltzer). >>
Ah,...THAT Ira! I recall the first time I met Mr. Meltzer it was an a Cleveland show. At the time he had both raw and Accugrade slabbed coins in his case. I believe now the slab of choice that he handles is NTC. I have not done any business with him. All we have in common is that we have the first first name, both are male, both sell coins, and both reside in New York state.
Comments
I agree with the observation that collectors are considerably more astute than they were just a few years ago and are moving on the quality material. Now more than ever I think the advice to buy the best you can afford is not only good advice for coins, but is almost always good advice when making any purchase.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
Barry wrote:
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>One dealer looked at my 09-S in 66RD which I asked 2300 for. After shuffling though his sheets he asked if he could show it to a friend. A couple minutes late he returned and handed it back:
“I’m sorry, I thought it was a VDB.” >>
An 09-S VDB in 66RD for $2,300??? Clearly, that was a dealer that didn't have a clue. $2,300 is a great price for a 64RD. >>
Oh, I think the dealer had a clue.
His name wasn't Ira, was it? >>
I know you meant that as a joke, Barry, but you must remember, not all who view this forum know me and some may take that as a serious statement.
Those who DO know me would know that I generally pay for items I like well above typical dealer actual buy pricing and I certainly would not make a mistake between a 1909-S Lincoln and a 1909-S VDB. Moreover, I would not need the counsel of any other dealer to help me make a decision unless the coin is from a series from which I am not familiar and there's very few that would come under that category (only Patterns, Colonials and Tokens come to mind).
Again, I'm not angry with you, Barry. We've done business in the past and hopefully will in the future.
As for now, I better contact AH's att'y on Monday to see if he'd like another libel/slander case to prosecute
Ira
It does seem that there is a limit to how far any market run will go and on reflection perhaps this one is mature. For those that do not like boom and bust scenerios, a pause to refresh would be welcomed.
<< <i>Funny, I hear many dealers say this was their best Long Beach ever! The attendance on Saturday was huge! >>
I agree. I actually worked this show (I even sold a 1908-S Indian to Eagle Eye!!!!!!!!) and it was really strong for all of the dealers I spoke to, including the one with whom I was working.
There has been great value and insight in all of the responses and
seems to have caused some really great minds to express their thoughts.
WELL DONE, to each and every responder.
Camelot
<< <i>Barry wrote:
His name wasn't Ira, was it? >>
I know you meant that as a joke, Barry, but you must remember, not all who view this forum know me and some may take that as a serious statement.
Ira >>
Ira (Stein),
You are right on one count and wrong on the other. I did mean it as a joke, however, you are not the Ira to whom I refer. My comment refers back to this thread, which involves another Ira (Meltzer).
That is concerning if it generally true. Some of my own purchases are funded, in part, with trade-ins or sales of current holdings. If the demand for these coins is low, I lose the funds and enthusiasm for additional future purchases. A vicious cycle.
Camelot
1- Eye appeal is king. regardless of whether the coin in vg, fine au or MS-67
its not the grade but the look of the coin. Obviously, as one gets into the mid range
and expensive coins the eye appeal becomes an ever increasing factor.
2. If you have so/so lackluster coins, what ever the grade, you might want to consider
selling them and replacing them with PQ coins.
3. Toned coins , especially Morgan and Peace Dollars must have at least 3 out of four characteristics.
These four are, rarity of date, quality of the coin, type of color and placement of the color.
Obverse color is usually better then reverse color, Color that goes rim to rim is better then partial surface
color. A moose should be at least MS-64 or higher. The lower grades will just not bring the money.
4. Wonderfully toned type coins seem to be underappreciated in todays market place.
5. What constitutes a WOW coin....Stike for the grade, luster, general color. even with a basically untoned coin,
you would like to see origonal skin and that lovely antique silver. On copper coins, toning that is natural and wow will bring
the big bucks.
6.- The auctions are really being overdone and are taking the wind out of the sails of regional and national shows.
7. Have some cash ready, there may be the opportunity for better prices(lower) in the future.
8. Bust type PQ coins are underated and should be considered choice targets of opportunity.
Mrs Bear is calling me, more later.
Camelot
<< <i>
<< <i>Barry wrote:
His name wasn't Ira, was it? >>
I know you meant that as a joke, Barry, but you must remember, not all who view this forum know me and some may take that as a serious statement.
Ira >>
Ira (Stein),
You are right on one count and wrong on the other. I did mean it as a joke, however, you are not the Ira to whom I refer. My comment refers back to this thread, which involves another Ira (Meltzer). >>
Ah,...THAT Ira! I recall the first time I met Mr. Meltzer it was an a Cleveland show. At the time he had both raw and Accugrade slabbed coins in his case. I believe now the slab of choice that he handles is NTC. I have not done any business with him. All we have in common is that we have the first first name, both are male, both sell coins, and both reside in New York state.
Ira
How abour Phinious??
Camelot
<< <i>So Ira, do we need to do a poll to get you a new name?
How abour Phinious??