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How does a GAI 9.5 compare to a PSA 10 in value on this 81 F Rose?

I don't usually screw around with modern, but I wound up with a ton of opened but unsearched wax packs from the early 80's a few weeks ago for next to nothing in price, and one of them had this card in it. GAI was in town taking submissions, so I let them grade a few cards... How does this GAI 9.5 grade compare to that of a PSA 10? I figured the card would have been a 10 if I had submitted it to PSA. The SMR on a PSA 10 is $150... if I sold this card on eBay, would it likely sell above or below that level?

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Comments

  • lawnmowermanlawnmowerman Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭
    I would say below. The card looks good but people seem to like PSA and BGS on ebay.
  • Nice care. Definite 10, but it's going to get less in the GAI holder.
    I have a ton of stuff in 9.5 and 10 in GAI holders, and they're hard
    to move.

    The SMR on a PSA 10 is $150... if I sold this card on eBay, would it likely sell above or below that level?

    I guess we won't really know unless you do try to sell it.
    Heck, it's the first one and the first one in that holder. Might be close.
    Good luck!
  • what does "1st Graded" mean??

    I have some low end 1935 National Chicle football with that. Is it good or bad??
    Running an Ebay store sure takes a lot more time than a person would think!
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    I'd stay away from those other grading companies. They grade too many trimmed cards for my taste.
    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • what does "1st Graded" mean??

    It is the 1st card (of that card) to receive that grade.
    You can basically have 19 1st graded of that card for every
    specific grade. From 1 to 10 and all the half grades.
    "Wow mom, I got a 1.5 1st graded 81 Fleer Pete Rose".

    Some people collect 1st graded exclusively. It was bringing a
    premium about a year ago. All that hoopla is dying out.
    I want the "last graded".
  • BigHurt, Well it is quite obvious that the person in your picture is not you since you are alot further out in left field than that guy. Your way out there.

    Since the majority of your posts are so insightful you should just change your name to DA BIG TURD.
  • ejguruejguru Posts: 618 ✭✭✭
    I actually think the first 50 graded (of a particular graded issue) were given the designation 1st Graded by GAI--correct me if I am wrong.
    "...life is but a dream."

    Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
  • I'd contact all the top guys in the GAI set registry for 1981 Fleer and Pete Rose sets and save Ebay fees.
  • I actually think the first 50 graded (of a particular graded issue) were given the designation 1st Graded by GAI--correct me if I am wrong.

    Wrong. When the company was first brand spankin' new, they were using the term "1st issue" which you may still
    see on some labels. I was told that they did it for the first 10 or 12 cards of that card. I ran into a dealer that actually
    had a lot of the "1st issue" and that's what he told me. I think it's stupid concept that didn't make any sense, so they
    changed it to first graded which is exactly the definition given up above. I've submitted cards that received the 1st graded
    designation and the second card (same exact card) without it. Both with sequential cert# in the same grade (9.5).
    First one had it (1st graded), 2nd one didn't.
  • Crystal ball...

    That card in a PSA 10 holder would bring 70.51 at auction +/- $10.
    That card in a GAI 9.5 holder would fetch 34.33 at auction +/- $7.
    That card in a GAI 10 holder would bring 117.55 at auction +/- $10.
    That card in an SGC 98 holder pulls in about 65.00 +/- $7.
    That card in a BVG 9.5 holder goes home for 30.50 +/- $7.
    That card in a BVG 10 no clue...
    That card in a PRO 10 holder would be funny.

    Hardly anyone buys the card these days. Everybody preaches about the card and not the holder but a precious few actually practice it.
    The PSA 10 is by far the weakest CARD these days in general terms and yet they continue to outdistance other brands.


    nice card...would look REALLY sharp in a clean CS1.

    dgf
  • You think there are any PRO 10s out there that would actually get a 10 from PSA? Any poor, lonely, forgetten Gem Mint cards selling for 1/1000 of their actual value?

    Lee
  • rvcrvc Posts: 559 ✭✭
    dgf- please elaborate "The PSA 10 is by far the weakest CARD these days in general terms "
    Bob
  • ldfergldferg Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭
    if it were to cross to psa 10, i think you'd get well below SMR. my guess around $60-65. i recent ryan sold for $67 however the pop count is double of ryan over rose. really just depends on timing and how many people want it. there are quite a few rose fans.


    Thanks,

    David (LD_Ferg)



    1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
  • I think I'd give Pete a 3 for the teeth and a 5.5 for the hair length.
  • I have a 1978 Topps Pete Rose GAI 9.5 on eBay right now, I'm definitey curious to see what percentage of SMR ($650) it will bring. Vintage GAI cards seem to bring close to PSA prices now, but i dunno if you would call '78 or '81 a vintage card.
  • rvc,
    I could write a 200 page essay on the matter, but all you need is a qualified eye and some common sense and you will realize in a short period of time that, generally speaking, a collector would be more wise to purchase an SGC 98 or GAI 10 unseen than a PSA 10 if quality were the goal. PSA simply awards 10's to exceptional cards that are undeniably fantastic AND marginal cards that are contained within bulk submissions. The latter has devalued the PSA 9 on all post 1970 issues and has made the registry a very uneven playing field. Example (only one of hundreds this year, mind you) is the 1977 Ralph Garr PSA 10 that Roger has up. It is neither as sharp, centered, or colorful as my PSA 9 copy (graded three years ago--for the record). Factor in the obvious print debris and you basically have a really nice PSA 8 from three years ago. SGC simply doesn't have the people to answer to and the bills to pay that PSA does and doesn't need to hand out 10's to keep the business flowing. Roger turned 5 Rich Gossage PSA 10's from 1979. One was worthy. Our grader simply understood the numbers...or didn't bother to actually GRADE all the cards. If Roger submits 5000 cards and only gets the 10's he deserves,PSA doesn't see another 5000 card sub...it's just that simple--and they know it. PSA is very inconsistent and the very thing that made me such a supporter (the registry) proved me to be a fool. Make no mistake, the registry is competitive. The talk of camaraderie is great when sitting at dinner with guys who don't collect the set you do, but on the boards it's all about GPA. When my 9's are superior to another collectors 10 that are purchased on-line from 4SC & the like; the inherent flaws of the system are too much to overlook. I'm not alone on this, I'm just the only guy with the stones to post it. I don't blame PSA. They are a business--a pretty big one. They do business the way many big ones do it. It's really our fault for purchasing the brand regardless of what garbage may lurk inside the holder. Everyone makes mistakes, but PSA, I believe, knowingly takes a "pretty sharp" card as a 9 and labels it 10 when the numbers make sense and the timing is right. I submitted 25 of my 8's in the last 18 months through volume dealers and got no less than a 9 and 6 10's. The numbers are what they are. SGC 98's are blazing cards. Global 10's are blazing cards. BVG 9.5 (when legitimate) are blazing cards. PSA 10's are hit or miss. If you don't agree you either don't know what you're talking about or haven't seen enough 10's. Some of the wonderful attributes becoming virtually common to the PSA Gem Mint 10 are including but not limited to...
    Blunt or fuzzy corners, border chipping, registration problems that should keep the card from MINT 9 status, focus problems, color irregularities, weak ink strikes, reverse centering issues, various degrees of staining, diamond cuts with the most severe portion outside of the published standards, basic centering, print defects including sprays, fish-eyes and extraneous debris from rollers or clogged plates, and trimming.
    I only used 4SC as an example here and mean no harm to a quality outfit. I buy from Roger regularily. I just make sure I check the scans real close and monitor the pop- report for multiple copy subs. I bought some really nice looking cards from Carlos recently with large scans that I hope are worthy of 10's as well. I still buy PSA and would even submit to PSA. I just don't participate in the registry anymore and would never pay any larger amount of money for their grade without seeing the card or knowing the seller well enough to say "is it REALLY a 10?"...
    As for the registry, the thing really soured me. I deserved best modern set last year and as a non-member I don't believe I was even considered. Frank Bakka equally deserved mention and we both got passed over by a NON MAINSTREAM set with only 60 cards in it that no one else was collecting. Further, they are expecting me to travel the full 10 yards for my "first downs" and only asking 4SC and their end-user to go 8. That's reality and absurd. I compete for a living and I require to know the rules before the game starts. These rules changed after the seventh-inning stretch. There is much more factual content I could offer as well as opinion and enlightened dialog if anyone cares to share or learn. I only require you have grading skills and be aware of the subjective elements associated with grading--as well as the empirical--and the monetary motivations that come into play before becoming an apologist. Nothing makes me lose respect for a collector faster than hearing the stuff DaBigHurt spews forth about PSA's omnipotent presence in the hobby regardless of the facts. The PSA Gem Mint 10 is the most mysterious and misunderstood grade in the hobby.

    dgf
  • rvcrvc Posts: 559 ✭✭
    dgf - thanks . i enjoyed your '77 writing last month and this was very interesting reading.
    Bob
  • SDavidSDavid Posts: 1,584 ✭✭
    GAI 9.5's often sell at 50-60% of what psa 10's with modern cards, but a well centered one would probably bring in more. A lot of the 9.5's I've seen on ebay would only get a 9 from the other majors due to centering, and they were probably cracked out psa/bgs/sgc 9's.
  • downgoesfrazier - I would be proud to let my "stones" stand along side of yours on this one......Bravo and well said! Your observations are absolutely correct and I couldn't have said it better myself.
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    all GEM MINT grades from all companies are over rated.

    Especially when it comes down to vintage cards.
    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • Calleocho, When they are graded accurately, a 10 can be a thing of beauty. I have nothing but praise and want for Gem Mint cards, I just like them to be upgrades from my 8's & 9's for the premium I pay and would like to see them awarded more on merit than whim or circumstance.


    dgf
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    Very interesting information and very thought provoking, DGF.

    I just think PSA is great because they've helped A LOT of people sell items that would otherwise be unsellable garbage and thus think PSA does a great job and I will continue to support them 110%. imageimageimageimageimage

    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭
    BigHurt> "I just think PSA is great because they've helped A LOT of people sell items that would otherwise be unsellable garbage. . ."

    I guess I'd like a clarification on this. . .

    Does PSA really help people sell items that would otherwise be unsellable garbage?
    or
    Does PSA merely help people get higher prices for their unsellable garbage by putting semi-random numbers on it?

    Mike
    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • DaBigHurtDaBigHurt Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
    I think you know the answer to that. image

    image

    GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭
    Hurt> Yeah, I like to think so. But the sad thing - and what I feel was the key point DGF was trying to make - was that the overwhelming majority of collectors either don't know the answer or they don't care.

    Mike
    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • HCSHCS Posts: 61 ✭✭
    At the end of the day, just practice "buy the card and not the holder" principle. I am putting slowly together what I believe is the best looking 1978 Topps baseball set with mostly 9's and a few 10's. All cards are centered at least 45-55 on the front with 4 sharp corners and solid edges. Any card that does not meet this criteria, regardless of grade doesn't make it into my set. I likely will never win the registry wars for this set but I will always appreciate my set the most. Remember, this is a hobby (expensive) that is to be enjoyed. image
  • mcastaldimcastaldi Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭
    HCS> All I can say is good luck. If you are truly building the finest 78 set, your standards are obviously very high. I would suggest you conduct the following experiment -
    - Go through your raw stuff and submit the 50 cards that are the best of your best. Only stuff that's easily PSA9+ quality.
    - Look at your results and look closely at each and every PSA9 and PSA10 you get back.
    - Go to eBay and buy 50 random PSA9s and 10s with the breakdown of 9s and 10s matching your submission. You must use at least 5 different vendors.
    - When you get those 50 cards from eBay, compare them card for card with the ones you submitted.
    - Report back on how the stuff you got from eBay compared to the stuff you submitted.

    When I was finishing a PSA-graded 1972T set, I conducted this experiment informally over the last 200 or so cards and it made me terribly frustrated. It simply took the fun out of building a PSA-graded set.

    Mike
    So full of action, my name should be a verb.
  • HCSHCS Posts: 61 ✭✭
    Mike, if I understand you correctly, your frustration is with the inconsistency of grading. That is now an accepted fact in graded card collecting (at least by me). Again, I only buy cards that meets my criteria regardless of grade (not lower than a PSA 9) so I am at least very happy and proud of my set.
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    Mike,

    In coin grading which is a lot more mature than cards, collectors will pay a nice premium for a coin that has great eye appeal for that particular grade.

    Two PSA 8 could be vastly different in looks and still qualify for their grade under their published standars.

    PSA standars might simply be lower than yours.

    DGF,

    GEM MINT is a mystical number aimed at people who are natural competitors, obsesive perfectionists, or guys with a small penis.

    There is no such thing as GEM MINT from any company, its a gimmick, a pretty good one i'll admit but not real.

    Take SGC for example, can you honestly tell me the difference between a SGC 98 and a SGC 100.





    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Mike, if I understand you correctly, your frustration is with the inconsistency of grading. That is now an accepted fact in graded card collecting (at least by me). Again, I only buy cards that meets my criteria regardless of grade (not lower than a PSA 9) so I am at least very happy and proud of my set. >>



    HCS:

    Great in practice, but hard to execute on Ebay - espsecially since most Ebay scans are not sufficiently large [due to how Ebay hosts the picture] to truly get a good feel for the corners of a card. Makes a big difference in the 8/9/10 game
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • SoutherncardsSoutherncards Posts: 1,384 ✭✭


    << <i>
    Take SGC for example, can you honestly tell me the difference between a SGC 98 and a SGC 100. >>




    As the owner of hundreds of SGC graded cards with a number of them being 98's, I actually think I can answer this. 98's are of course beautiful in every detail. The 100's that I have seen have that extra special look where gloss and color are concerned. I dont know why but every once in a while a card comes along that has that little something extra as far as gloss and I believe that you can see a difference.
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    I disagree with you southerncards,

    its almost impossible to pick apart a MINT card from a GEM MINT card.

    most gem mint cards are by nature overgraded since it could be argued that every single card could have a flaw, especially if you were to look at them under extreme magnification.

    Now, gimmicky grades like SGC 100 or BGS 10 pristine or whatever , its just silly, its luck.

    And even if there were some type of microcospic difference between a GEM Mint and a Pristine card, it should not be worth such a large premium since the differences can not be seen with the naked eye.

    Cards should be looked at like most of us look at women: Ugly, Average, and pretty.
    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • every once in awhile you get "That Card" it is just unreal. Now personally I dont care if its a 9, 9.2, 9.5, 10, 10.8, or 400.

    Its just an awesome feeling to hold it in your hands and put it in your collection.

    psa vs. bvg vs. sgc vs. gai...

    I couldn't care less, becuse its just "That Card"


    just my 2.5 cents worth (now holder my 2.5 cents in a psa holder..do you think I can get more for it?)
    The Link below will take you to the PSA Boards 1952 Set Build, I also have made 5 slideshows each slideshow is 100 cards long, card numbers 1-99,100-199,200-299,300-399, and 400-407
    Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set


  • << <i>its almost impossible to pick apart a MINT card from a GEM MINT card. >>



    That's a shame for you. I'm sorry. I hope someday you will enjoy searching for these mythical "gimmicks". It's not difficult if you know what you're looking at and understand the nuances. There are cards clearly above that of the general hobby criteria (and PSA's) that exhibit not only technical merit, but tremendous aesthetics as well...virtually, I say VIRTUALLY, perfect cards. I would be more inclined to agrre with a statement like "No card is perfect". Gem Mint cards not only exist, they are primarily what I and others on this board collect. BTW, I am certainly a natural competitior, I am OCD, and my penis is only NM/MT.


    dgf
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    DGF,

    there are cards out there that do stand out even among other mint cards.

    however only a person who is truly versed in one particular set could ever appreciate this card.

    PSA, SGC, GAI...they wont.

    they will grade that same card anywhere from a psa 8 to a psa 10

    the true value of PSA is not in them assigning a grade to your card but rather in their authentication.

    I am confident that PSA might catch 99% of all "doctored" cards.

    but when it comes to their grading i am only about 50% sure that they got it right.

    all grading companies suffer from this, its just part of the game.

    like i said, there 3 kind of cards, an ugly card, a decent card and a nice card.

    thats about it, everything else is subjective to a grader's mood swing that day.

    If you were to take out the competition factor, the resale and all the other B.S a collector might as well buy good looking 9's and forget 10's because in reality most 10's are just that solid 9's on a lucky day.











    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • kobykoby Posts: 1,699 ✭✭


    << <i>
    As for the registry, the thing really soured me. I deserved best modern set last year and as a non-member I don't believe I was even considered. Frank Bakka equally deserved mention and we both got passed over by a NON MAINSTREAM set with only 60 cards in it that no one else was collecting. >>




    Sorry you didn't winimage
  • Thanks Kobe. Me too image Now I just have to find a way to keep on keeping on. My life is now crap!

    dgf
  • My penis just came back from PSA "evid of trimming".

    GG
  • Dude,
    How did you ship that? You should've graded it with beckett. As long as it measures...


    dgf
  • Its the new "pre-grade penis service from PSA" Kinda like the PSA/DNA pre-cert. They took one look at it and said NOPE!! ALTERED!!!

    HAHAHA

    GG
  • A761506A761506 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
    Just a quick note, the card is now on eBay, so we will see what it is worth. Currently, with just over 2 days left, it's got 5 bids and the price is $5.50. If anyone here is interested, I'd say with near certainty that it would cross to a PSA 10. I only used GAI because they were in town at a local show, and were quick and cheap.

    Link to Auction

    image
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