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How does a GAI 9.5 compare to a PSA 10 in value on this 81 F Rose?
A761506
Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
I don't usually screw around with modern, but I wound up with a ton of opened but unsearched wax packs from the early 80's a few weeks ago for next to nothing in price, and one of them had this card in it. GAI was in town taking submissions, so I let them grade a few cards... How does this GAI 9.5 grade compare to that of a PSA 10? I figured the card would have been a 10 if I had submitted it to PSA. The SMR on a PSA 10 is $150... if I sold this card on eBay, would it likely sell above or below that level?
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1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
I have a ton of stuff in 9.5 and 10 in GAI holders, and they're hard
to move.
The SMR on a PSA 10 is $150... if I sold this card on eBay, would it likely sell above or below that level?
I guess we won't really know unless you do try to sell it.
Heck, it's the first one and the first one in that holder. Might be close.
Good luck!
I have some low end 1935 National Chicle football with that. Is it good or bad??
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
It is the 1st card (of that card) to receive that grade.
You can basically have 19 1st graded of that card for every
specific grade. From 1 to 10 and all the half grades.
"Wow mom, I got a 1.5 1st graded 81 Fleer Pete Rose".
Some people collect 1st graded exclusively. It was bringing a
premium about a year ago. All that hoopla is dying out.
I want the "last graded".
Since the majority of your posts are so insightful you should just change your name to DA BIG TURD.
Used to working on HOF SS Baseballs--Now just '67 Sox Stickers and anything Boston related.
Wrong. When the company was first brand spankin' new, they were using the term "1st issue" which you may still
see on some labels. I was told that they did it for the first 10 or 12 cards of that card. I ran into a dealer that actually
had a lot of the "1st issue" and that's what he told me. I think it's stupid concept that didn't make any sense, so they
changed it to first graded which is exactly the definition given up above. I've submitted cards that received the 1st graded
designation and the second card (same exact card) without it. Both with sequential cert# in the same grade (9.5).
First one had it (1st graded), 2nd one didn't.
That card in a PSA 10 holder would bring 70.51 at auction +/- $10.
That card in a GAI 9.5 holder would fetch 34.33 at auction +/- $7.
That card in a GAI 10 holder would bring 117.55 at auction +/- $10.
That card in an SGC 98 holder pulls in about 65.00 +/- $7.
That card in a BVG 9.5 holder goes home for 30.50 +/- $7.
That card in a BVG 10 no clue...
That card in a PRO 10 holder would be funny.
Hardly anyone buys the card these days. Everybody preaches about the card and not the holder but a precious few actually practice it.
The PSA 10 is by far the weakest CARD these days in general terms and yet they continue to outdistance other brands.
nice card...would look REALLY sharp in a clean CS1.
dgf
Lee
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
I could write a 200 page essay on the matter, but all you need is a qualified eye and some common sense and you will realize in a short period of time that, generally speaking, a collector would be more wise to purchase an SGC 98 or GAI 10 unseen than a PSA 10 if quality were the goal. PSA simply awards 10's to exceptional cards that are undeniably fantastic AND marginal cards that are contained within bulk submissions. The latter has devalued the PSA 9 on all post 1970 issues and has made the registry a very uneven playing field. Example (only one of hundreds this year, mind you) is the 1977 Ralph Garr PSA 10 that Roger has up. It is neither as sharp, centered, or colorful as my PSA 9 copy (graded three years ago--for the record). Factor in the obvious print debris and you basically have a really nice PSA 8 from three years ago. SGC simply doesn't have the people to answer to and the bills to pay that PSA does and doesn't need to hand out 10's to keep the business flowing. Roger turned 5 Rich Gossage PSA 10's from 1979. One was worthy. Our grader simply understood the numbers...or didn't bother to actually GRADE all the cards. If Roger submits 5000 cards and only gets the 10's he deserves,PSA doesn't see another 5000 card sub...it's just that simple--and they know it. PSA is very inconsistent and the very thing that made me such a supporter (the registry) proved me to be a fool. Make no mistake, the registry is competitive. The talk of camaraderie is great when sitting at dinner with guys who don't collect the set you do, but on the boards it's all about GPA. When my 9's are superior to another collectors 10 that are purchased on-line from 4SC & the like; the inherent flaws of the system are too much to overlook. I'm not alone on this, I'm just the only guy with the stones to post it. I don't blame PSA. They are a business--a pretty big one. They do business the way many big ones do it. It's really our fault for purchasing the brand regardless of what garbage may lurk inside the holder. Everyone makes mistakes, but PSA, I believe, knowingly takes a "pretty sharp" card as a 9 and labels it 10 when the numbers make sense and the timing is right. I submitted 25 of my 8's in the last 18 months through volume dealers and got no less than a 9 and 6 10's. The numbers are what they are. SGC 98's are blazing cards. Global 10's are blazing cards. BVG 9.5 (when legitimate) are blazing cards. PSA 10's are hit or miss. If you don't agree you either don't know what you're talking about or haven't seen enough 10's. Some of the wonderful attributes becoming virtually common to the PSA Gem Mint 10 are including but not limited to...
Blunt or fuzzy corners, border chipping, registration problems that should keep the card from MINT 9 status, focus problems, color irregularities, weak ink strikes, reverse centering issues, various degrees of staining, diamond cuts with the most severe portion outside of the published standards, basic centering, print defects including sprays, fish-eyes and extraneous debris from rollers or clogged plates, and trimming.
I only used 4SC as an example here and mean no harm to a quality outfit. I buy from Roger regularily. I just make sure I check the scans real close and monitor the pop- report for multiple copy subs. I bought some really nice looking cards from Carlos recently with large scans that I hope are worthy of 10's as well. I still buy PSA and would even submit to PSA. I just don't participate in the registry anymore and would never pay any larger amount of money for their grade without seeing the card or knowing the seller well enough to say "is it REALLY a 10?"...
As for the registry, the thing really soured me. I deserved best modern set last year and as a non-member I don't believe I was even considered. Frank Bakka equally deserved mention and we both got passed over by a NON MAINSTREAM set with only 60 cards in it that no one else was collecting. Further, they are expecting me to travel the full 10 yards for my "first downs" and only asking 4SC and their end-user to go 8. That's reality and absurd. I compete for a living and I require to know the rules before the game starts. These rules changed after the seventh-inning stretch. There is much more factual content I could offer as well as opinion and enlightened dialog if anyone cares to share or learn. I only require you have grading skills and be aware of the subjective elements associated with grading--as well as the empirical--and the monetary motivations that come into play before becoming an apologist. Nothing makes me lose respect for a collector faster than hearing the stuff DaBigHurt spews forth about PSA's omnipotent presence in the hobby regardless of the facts. The PSA Gem Mint 10 is the most mysterious and misunderstood grade in the hobby.
dgf
Especially when it comes down to vintage cards.
Groucho Marx
dgf
I just think PSA is great because they've helped A LOT of people sell items that would otherwise be unsellable garbage and thus think PSA does a great job and I will continue to support them 110%.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
I guess I'd like a clarification on this. . .
Does PSA really help people sell items that would otherwise be unsellable garbage?
or
Does PSA merely help people get higher prices for their unsellable garbage by putting semi-random numbers on it?
Mike
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Mike
- Go through your raw stuff and submit the 50 cards that are the best of your best. Only stuff that's easily PSA9+ quality.
- Look at your results and look closely at each and every PSA9 and PSA10 you get back.
- Go to eBay and buy 50 random PSA9s and 10s with the breakdown of 9s and 10s matching your submission. You must use at least 5 different vendors.
- When you get those 50 cards from eBay, compare them card for card with the ones you submitted.
- Report back on how the stuff you got from eBay compared to the stuff you submitted.
When I was finishing a PSA-graded 1972T set, I conducted this experiment informally over the last 200 or so cards and it made me terribly frustrated. It simply took the fun out of building a PSA-graded set.
Mike
In coin grading which is a lot more mature than cards, collectors will pay a nice premium for a coin that has great eye appeal for that particular grade.
Two PSA 8 could be vastly different in looks and still qualify for their grade under their published standars.
PSA standars might simply be lower than yours.
DGF,
GEM MINT is a mystical number aimed at people who are natural competitors, obsesive perfectionists, or guys with a small penis.
There is no such thing as GEM MINT from any company, its a gimmick, a pretty good one i'll admit but not real.
Take SGC for example, can you honestly tell me the difference between a SGC 98 and a SGC 100.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>Mike, if I understand you correctly, your frustration is with the inconsistency of grading. That is now an accepted fact in graded card collecting (at least by me). Again, I only buy cards that meets my criteria regardless of grade (not lower than a PSA 9) so I am at least very happy and proud of my set. >>
HCS:
Great in practice, but hard to execute on Ebay - espsecially since most Ebay scans are not sufficiently large [due to how Ebay hosts the picture] to truly get a good feel for the corners of a card. Makes a big difference in the 8/9/10 game
<< <i>
Take SGC for example, can you honestly tell me the difference between a SGC 98 and a SGC 100. >>
As the owner of hundreds of SGC graded cards with a number of them being 98's, I actually think I can answer this. 98's are of course beautiful in every detail. The 100's that I have seen have that extra special look where gloss and color are concerned. I dont know why but every once in a while a card comes along that has that little something extra as far as gloss and I believe that you can see a difference.
its almost impossible to pick apart a MINT card from a GEM MINT card.
most gem mint cards are by nature overgraded since it could be argued that every single card could have a flaw, especially if you were to look at them under extreme magnification.
Now, gimmicky grades like SGC 100 or BGS 10 pristine or whatever , its just silly, its luck.
And even if there were some type of microcospic difference between a GEM Mint and a Pristine card, it should not be worth such a large premium since the differences can not be seen with the naked eye.
Cards should be looked at like most of us look at women: Ugly, Average, and pretty.
Groucho Marx
Its just an awesome feeling to hold it in your hands and put it in your collection.
psa vs. bvg vs. sgc vs. gai...
I couldn't care less, becuse its just "That Card"
just my 2.5 cents worth (now holder my 2.5 cents in a psa holder..do you think I can get more for it?)
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
<< <i>its almost impossible to pick apart a MINT card from a GEM MINT card. >>
That's a shame for you. I'm sorry. I hope someday you will enjoy searching for these mythical "gimmicks". It's not difficult if you know what you're looking at and understand the nuances. There are cards clearly above that of the general hobby criteria (and PSA's) that exhibit not only technical merit, but tremendous aesthetics as well...virtually, I say VIRTUALLY, perfect cards. I would be more inclined to agrre with a statement like "No card is perfect". Gem Mint cards not only exist, they are primarily what I and others on this board collect. BTW, I am certainly a natural competitior, I am OCD, and my penis is only NM/MT.
dgf
there are cards out there that do stand out even among other mint cards.
however only a person who is truly versed in one particular set could ever appreciate this card.
PSA, SGC, GAI...they wont.
they will grade that same card anywhere from a psa 8 to a psa 10
the true value of PSA is not in them assigning a grade to your card but rather in their authentication.
I am confident that PSA might catch 99% of all "doctored" cards.
but when it comes to their grading i am only about 50% sure that they got it right.
all grading companies suffer from this, its just part of the game.
like i said, there 3 kind of cards, an ugly card, a decent card and a nice card.
thats about it, everything else is subjective to a grader's mood swing that day.
If you were to take out the competition factor, the resale and all the other B.S a collector might as well buy good looking 9's and forget 10's because in reality most 10's are just that solid 9's on a lucky day.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>
As for the registry, the thing really soured me. I deserved best modern set last year and as a non-member I don't believe I was even considered. Frank Bakka equally deserved mention and we both got passed over by a NON MAINSTREAM set with only 60 cards in it that no one else was collecting. >>
Sorry you didn't win
dgf
GG
How did you ship that? You should've graded it with beckett. As long as it measures...
dgf
HAHAHA
GG
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