Got an obvious fake off ebay, what can I do/should I do?

orion9578 · February 24, 2005 5:21AM

I'll post the pictures and let you guys decide if Im right or not. Left on the screen is my card I purchased in 1988 from the local card shop, right is the ebay card.

I bought it from a ebayer with a good amount of sales and no negs. Guess I shouldn't buy raw but I figured it was worth the risk. Any and all comments on if you also think its a fake/reprint and what I should do about it would be appriciated. I probably overpaid for a raw card, like an idiot, but heres the link to the auction,

link

Thanks

Ryan

kingraider75 · February 24, 2005 5:28AM

I don't enough about this card to tell you if it's fake or not.

How did you pay for the card? paypal?

Knuckles · February 24, 2005 5:41AM

Brian48 · February 24, 2005 5:47AM

Yeah, I could tell it was a fake even without the magnification. Contact the seller. Chances are, he didn't know either.

I picked an '84 Donruss Mattingly a few months ago that was a fake also. I contacted the seller, gave him the details, and was sent a refund.

orion9578 · February 24, 2005 5:57AM

<< I don't enough about this card to tell you if it's fake or not.

How did you pay for the card? paypal? >>

Ya I used paypal. And yes it was really obvious to me too that it was a fake when I recieved it. I have already emailed him about it and this is what a snippet of what I got back:

"I have had several worthy people take a look at the card and they can swear to it that it is an original. I would like to know your reasoning of why you believe the card is a fake, it does not say reprint any where on it. Please get back to me ASAP and I will try to solve this problem. Thanks again."

I asked for my money back and told him I would ship it back to him ASAP when I got my refund. He didnt mention anything about it in his reply

. So I don't really know what to do beyond contacting ebay/paypal, which will take forever, doesnt it? Thanks for the input though fellas, appriciate it.

Ryan

kingraider75 · February 24, 2005 6:04AM

I admit the card didn't look "right", but I didn't feel like saying for sure it's a fake. With the close up scan, it makes me quite certain it's a fake.

Did he put delivery confirmation on the package???

Who did the seller consult? His dog???

orion9578 · February 24, 2005 6:19AM

<< I admit the card didn't look "right", but I didn't feel like saying for sure it's a fake. With the close up scan, it makes me quite certain it's a fake.

Did he put delivery confirmation on the package???

Who did the seller consult? His dog??? >>

It is e/usps priority mail with signature confirmation though I never signed anything..it was left in my mailbox. And as far as the close up scan goes, in my original that is 3megs and huge, the dark little arrow looking thing and the dark lilttle triangle to the bottom left of the F in fleer there are dots in my orignal card, which I didnt notice till I looked at it close. Fairly obvious they aren't there in the second scan, even in Knuckles close up. As far as consulting your guess is as good as mine, but it must have been his dog

. I'm a little worried about how this is going to turn out though. He replied within 5 minutes of me sending the first email about it being a fake, and its been a good 3-4 hours since I wrote him back and sent scans of them side by side(the huge 3 meg ones that make it clearly obvious) and no reply. /me sighs

Ryan

calleocho · February 24, 2005 6:19AM

expensive cards, with known reprints should always be bought graded by PSA, SGC or GAI

a real PSA 8 would be worth double that amount. for 300 bucks you might get a low grade PSA 5 or so

there is a reason why that seller didnt have the card graded, why would he lose so much money, a PSA 9 would be in the 1000+ range.

send him a link of this post, he might be more forthcoming with that refund.

the card is a fake

easttexascardsandgames · February 24, 2005 6:23AM

I asked for my money back and told him I would ship it back to him ASAP when I got my refund.

Not siding with him, but I would not be willing to refund you anything until I get the item back first. Paypal or your CC company will expect you to send the card back before you will be able to get a refund. You do not go into Wal-mart and expect a refund without bringing the item you are wanting your money back with you.

Stone193 · February 24, 2005 6:49AM

Ryan had emailed me a copy of the his good Jordan against the new one - the dead giveaway was in the word "Premier" - in the new one, the letters appear as print dots instead of solid lines in the lettering.

He deserves a refund; but as was said, they will expect him to return it so they can try again!

Even though the seller has 100% FB, I hate to sound cynical, but why would someone let a "Mint" Jordan RC go for $330? For a few bucks in grading fees, it goes for much more.

your friend
Mike

Whale · February 24, 2005 7:05AM

It was Gem Mint not Mint and he was forced to sell it due to a financial condition.

SEND the card back by insured mail with a signature confirmation and give the guy a chance to refund your money.

WinPitcher · February 24, 2005 7:40AM

Sorta on topic. What if this guy (seller) signs for the return and then claims it is not the same card or not a card at all. What protection does a buyer have then?

Steve

Orion you will be ok, your dough will be refunded. I am just asking this question as it is sorta on topic.

A761506 · February 24, 2005 7:59AM

By the way, in case you need a more convincing way to prove the card is a fake, aside from just that little yellow tag off the Fleer logo.... the counterfeit card is printed entirely in half-tone print. That means that the entire image, including the border, consists of a series of thousands of tiny dots, front and back. On an authentic card, the only part of the image that you will find printed like that is the picture of Jordan. The rest of the ink will be solid. Half-tone print is especially noticable around text, as you cannot get a perfectly crisp print line using half-tone printing, which is why the text on 99% of cards is printed using solid ink.

orion9578 · February 24, 2005 8:25AM

<< I asked for my money back and told him I would ship it back to him ASAP when I got my refund.

Not siding with him, but I would not be willing to refund you anything until I get the item back first. Paypal or your CC company will expect you to send the card back before you will be able to get a refund. You do not go into Wal-mart and expect a refund without bringing the item you are wanting your money back with you. >>

I agree easttexas, I wouldnt want to make a refund until I got the product back either. I was just a little, or alot, pissed about this when I first got it and probably made a demand that wasn't nessicary. I have yet to hear back from him but when I do I will make sure and tell him I would be sending it back before I expect my money back.

SteveD, thats a great question. I would like to say before I tell everyone this I am an idiot and I probably almost deserve to keep this card for not checking. Perhaps someone new to ebay buying like myself will learn a lesson from this:

my seller buying a card one month before

Next time I will definantly have to look at stuff like this and ask for high res huge scans when buying raw. A mistake I will only make once, live and learn.

Ryan

Twinsthreepeat · February 24, 2005 8:28AM

Just to play devil's advocate.

(the seller)
I'm sorry, but you bought an ungraded card. I delivered the card to you. I now you are saying it is fake. How do I now that you didn't switch the one I sent you, which is real, with a fake. And now you are trying to screw me.

orion9578 · February 24, 2005 8:34AM

<< Just to play devil's advocate.

(the seller)
I'm sorry, but you bought an ungraded card. I delivered the card to you. I now you are saying it is fake. How do I now that you didn't switch the one I sent you, which is real, with a fake. And now you are trying to screw me. >>

I dont know if this would help or not but I did post a scan of my original card about 2-3 weeks ago, didnt recieve this card until today. Good point though.

Ryan

Onlypsahockey · February 24, 2005 8:38AM

ryan,

Send him the 2nd link which shows he bought a reprint then turned around and tried to rip off everyone. I bet you get your refund then.

Then rip the card in half before you send it back to this a$$hole.

Bob

schr1st · February 24, 2005 9:15AM

The # of fake Jordan rookies in the market (along with Gretzkys, Bobby Orr, Pete Rose, etc.) is just disgusting. I had a Jordan rookie that I've owned since the early 90's that I knew was legit, but I also knew that if I ever wanted to sell the card, I'd have to have it graded (came back a PSA 8). I hope you are able to get your $ back.

EagleEyeKid · February 24, 2005 9:25AM

The guy's a scum and I hope he rots in hell.
I think you can kiss your $ goodbye if he's playing
"how do I know you didn't switch the card" routine.
With that statement, I think he's pretty adamant about
keeping the money. Sorry for your lose, but I hope I'm wrong
and you do recover your refund. Good luck.

DirtyHarry · February 24, 2005 9:33AM

Caveat emptor. As someone else said, why would a guy sell this card without grading? Same goes for buying. Hope all works out. Regards.

Stone193 · February 24, 2005 10:05AM

<< It was Gem Mint not Mint and he was forced to sell it due to a financial condition.

SEND the card back by insured mail with a signature confirmation and give the guy a chance to refund your money. >>

Whale
It's admirable that you want to take up for the guy but as I said...a true mint will go for a lot more dough and I can't believe he can't afford to get a "quick" PSA grade to enhance the sale - that's if he really needed the money as you say.

But this purchase just blows the whole story out of the water! Bought a Jordan for 15 bucks?

But if I need defending, I want you on my side!

your friend
Mike

EdnaPurviance · February 24, 2005 10:24AM

If you paid thru Paypal, file a complaint. Even if the seller is able to prove he sent the card to you, you may still be able to recover thru your credit card company. I had this exact same problem once--I got a letter from a local dealer to attest that the card I had bought was fake. My CC company refunded me $5,000 and Paypal cancelled the seller's Paypal account.

metsfan · March 3, 2005 7:46AM

I'm confused about the signature confirmation. If it had signature confirmation on it,who signed for it? If it was just left by the postman,this may be your "out", as paypal requires signature confirmation on items priced this high. I would check the confirmation # on the usps site.

GoBravesGo · March 3, 2005 7:54AM

<< Got an obvious fake off ebay, what can I do/should I do? >>

Be a lot smarter next time! THAT is what you will do.

orion9578 · March 3, 2005 8:10AM

It said "delivered" on the usps site but I never signed for anything. An update on this situation is the guy has totally stopped replying to my emails. I really wanted to give it some time so that maybe we could work things out between the two of us but I guess thats not how its going to work out.

Ryan

Stone193 · March 3, 2005 9:04AM

<< It said "delivered" on the usps site but I never signed for anything. An update on this situation is the guy has totally stopped replying to my emails. I really wanted to give it some time so that maybe we could work things out between the two of us but I guess thats not how its going to work out.

Ryan >>

Ryan
Time to contact paypal and get the thing reversed. They will probably tell you to return it first - have you told the guy in the email that you will return it certified mail and proceed with paypal? If that doesn't get his attention, nothing will. The ball's in your court now...kick his ass!

your friend
Mike

orion9578 · March 3, 2005 11:12AM

Yes I have Mike and he still didn't respond. I went ahead and reported him to ebay to see if that gets his attention and if not then I will report him to paypal. I was just going to do both at the same time but(yikes)i was going through the steps on paypal and it said you have to " be prepared to submit a letter of inauthenticity from a reputable expert who can substantiate your claim". I take that as I need to send it off to PSA, correct me if I'm wrong. If I do that do they also give me my money I spend on submitting and shipping/insurance charges? Sigh...

Ryan

Axtell · March 3, 2005 11:28AM

<< Yes I have Mike and he still didn't respond. I went ahead and reported him to ebay to see if that gets his attention and if not then I will report him to paypal. I was just going to do both at the same time but(yikes)i was going through the steps on paypal and it said you have to " be prepared to submit a letter of inauthenticity from a reputable expert who can substantiate your claim". I take that as I need to send it off to PSA, correct me if I'm wrong. If I do that do they also give me my money I spend on submitting and shipping/insurance charges? Sigh...

Ryan >>

I doubt they will reimburse those fees, but those are a drop in the bucket compared to $300+.

I think if you give the links of the auction where he bought the reprint, then a month later selling the same card for 20x and no mention of it being a reprint, is well, pretty damning evidence.

Good luck in bringing this scumbag down.

Got an obvious fake off ebay, what can I do/should I do?

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