found da railroad quarter

Cam40

hmmm...uploading pics....

Cam40

damn it.. i just edited them down and they still come up huge!!!
soab!!!!

Cam40

cladking

Most acids are much more highly reactive with the copper core than
with the cu/ni cladding. This causes the interior to erode away more
quickly. When you see the reeding inside then you know it was acid.

Jdurg

Yes, but in terms of the activity series copper is further down than hydrogen is so acids are really useless against copper metal. The only common acid that will attack copper is nitric acid and that's because of the combination of the nitrate ion acting in tandem with the hydrogen ion. Basically, if there's an acid that will eat away at copper it will eat away at other metals a bit quicker.

There is one chemical, however, that will preferentially attack copper moreso than other metals. If you have those 'insta-cold' packs where you have to break some tube or whatnot and the entire pack becomes freezing cold, you'll have that chemical. It's simply ammonium nitrate. Because of the nitrate ion and the ammonium, the copper metal gets attacked and dissolved into solution. This 'attack' really only affects the copper. (This is how you can remove the copper layer off of a new penny and get a relatively clean 'zinc' penny). I'm not really sure why this is, but I guess the copper is able to form amino complexes which are thermodynamically favorable while other metals don't do that as well.

skydivdav

Man, you sure know your chemistry!
Blue skies,
Impressed

ozzysdad

I Wonder what effect Aqua Regia would have, If Any? I am familiar with it's reaction with Platinum, one of the more Noble Metal's. Chloroplatinic Acid once evaporated then heated will produce the purer form of the metal, The only drawback is the melting point of Platinum is 3000 degree's centigrade, in a Hydrogen Furnace. I've got some Ore that has, Platinum, Paladium, Rhodium, Ruthenium 184, Gold, Silver, and Copper, from a fairly large deposit i found in Missouri of all place's.
I have approx. a ton of it packed in crates. But was never able to find a way to seperate it. I tried a Oxy-Acetylene Torch, I't just kept melting back into itself. I had Fire Assay's done, Even sent sample's to the USGS, All they wanted was to know where the deposit was located. I clammed up.... saved the ore, and have some available if anyone is interested in figuring out how to seperate it. PM me..... for more info....

Brad....

Jdurg

Aqua Regia would dissolve the entire quarter, lock-stock-and-barrel. It's a nasty concoction of concentrated hydrochloric and nitric acids. The strong oxidizing ability of the nitrate ion, chlorine gas that is generated, and nitrogen-oxides that are generated work in tandem with the hydrogen ions to totally destroy most metals. However, there are still some metals like osmium and iridium that are impervious to aqua regia. So if the ore was dissolved in aqua regia, nearly everything would go into solution while the elements impervious to the stuff would remain as the solids. Either way, with all those different elements in there it would take quite a bit of work using a LOT of vicious and nasty chemicals to get a relatively small amount of metal. (Compared the work you'd have to do). Plus, nitric acid is NOT something you want to be fooling around with, and aqua regia is one of the nastier things to work with. Mostly because it readily fumes and can give off nasty amounts of chlorine and nitric oxide gas which are not only toxic, but pretty corrosive as well. Some other chemicals needed include cyanides for ppting out gold and those too are not something to be taken lightly.

If the assay of your ore sample showed a high concentration of metals (especially rhodium and platinum), then you might be best off sending it to a refinery and having them do all the work. They may charge a decent amount of money, but if there's enough of the ore and the proper metals are in high proportion, you'll still get a nice chunk of precious metals out of it.

DominusDeus

Eh, just throw the quarter in some

Cam40

hehe ya, lets throw a quarter in some superacid and watch it take on a new form....GAS....lol


next question would be, why.
are these `railroad coins` made by accident of by design.
could they be test pieces used to determine the strenght of a solution?
sounds more like a `hey bubba, watch what happens when..` kinda deal...

Jdurg

Heh. While we're at it we might as well stir a solution of monoperoxysulfuric acid with our fingers. I think the reason it's done is like why people used to coat pennies in mercury to make them look 'silver'. It's just a 'hey man, look what I can do!"

ozzysdad

Seem's like i read that Platinum occur's in soil in concentrations of 1 Ten Millionth of 1 percent, I'll find my assay's and try to post them later. This ore had fairly equal amount's of all the metals i mentioned, except for the copper, it was around 35 part's per million. This stuff is also slightly radioactive, Geiger counter i used went on a scale of 1 to 10 this was around 2.
I narrowed it down to the Ruthenium, which has 2 types, something like Ruthenium 184 and 187? Can't recall, But, i would worry about mailing it these day's.

cladking

You can't ship radioactive materials through the US mail to domestic addresses anymore.

I'm told UPS will take it.

Jdurg

Shipping through the UPS is a much easier thing to do than trying to ship it through the USPS. (It can still be done via USPS, but it's a major pain in the butt that's just not worth it).

With your geiger counter, you did correct for background radiation, right? There is a constant level of background radiation due to radon and other things in the environment that will always create a signal. Plus, any random dirt or rock you pick up will exhibit some radioactivity because things like thorium and uranium are very well dispersed throughout the environment. As for your guesses, Ru-184 and Ru-187 do not exist. Those isotopes are far too heavy for the Ruthenium atom. (Atomic number of 44 and Avg. Atomic Mass of 101.07). I think you may have meant Re-184 and Re-187. Re-184 is a man-made, synthetic isotope of Rhenium with a half-life of 32 days. I'm fairly certain that it's not in your sample. So chances are your geiger counter is just picking up natural background radiation.

ozzysdad

No, I had a Radiologist at the hospital run the Geiger counter, He had the experience to do it. All he wanted was a chunk of it for himself, Which wasn't a problem. This stuff is really heavy, I took some pic's and will scan the 2 assay reports shortly. As for the Ruthenium i had found a website that told me about the radioactive info, It's been a long time since i even thot about this stuff, Just found a box of it i had of the ore a couple weeks ago. and this thread had reminded me of it. I know it's a bit OT, But, it would be cool to extract it if anyone can figure out how? I could probably cast a coin if i tried.
I know i can plate one with it.