Should NCG have a special mark on the labels of coins that have been "conserved"?
fivecents
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Everytime I see a coin in a NGC holder with a questionable look to it I wonder if it has been cleaned(conserved). Shouldn't NGC put some small mark on the label of the holders of the coins that they have "conserved?
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I can understand NOT notating these coins, as many are returned back to the owners and sent off to a certification co. other than NGC, so there would be no way to track those coins.
Also, so many collectors/dealers/investors are messing with coins, it could have been anyone that performed the "conservation" and then ultimately chose NGC to slab the coin.
LSCC#1864
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<< <i>Shouldn't PCGS put some small mark on the label of the holders of the coins that they have "conserved? >>
Hell yeah they should.
<< <i>What about all of the home conservations taking place, there's no mark for them. >>
If home conservation was more than just a dip and can be detected by the TPGS the mark will be a bodybag.
Would anyone have a problem with PCGS having a conservation service?
and anyone if they know and understand what they are looking at can immediately tell ......... if the coin has been to ncs or not
if you know and understand coins in your speciality the coin just by looking at it will answer all your questions
before you start buying coins you had better learn buy books read and talk to others look st lots of coins before wadeing into the buying of coins if you do not then it is your choice and let the buyer beware
i am glad most of the newer less seasoned coin collectors are not thinking of brain surgery as most would be very disappointed that they cant start to operate tomorrow
Also, so many collectors/dealers/investors are messing with coins, it could have been anyone that performed the "conservation" and then ultimately chose NGC to slab the coin.
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BigD5
LSCC#1864
Post of the week.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
and these coins are the great ones!! the problem is that some coins are easier to help than others
so...................
if you got a coin that takes well to preservation and it is technically a higher grade coin with absolutely no problems and it just have a light coating of materials on the surface of the coin that has not eaten into the coins sub surface then it is an easy task IF done correctly and properly neutralized to come out with a coin that basically looks like it was struck yesterday
the problem is that coins like the above example are few and far between at ncs sees like this and also if everything goes correctly in the preservation process then you got a killer great coin!!!!!!!
now if you buy only those coins as per the above you are okie
the problem again starts with finding those needles in a haystack so to speak and having enough experience to be able to tell the quality of the preservation of the work the quality of the coin and if this coin looks like an original struck coin as there was no damage by surface layers that deposited as such over the years and the coin was properly done and still has the eye appeal flash and blast of a really original coin that just had a slight coating of dust dirt slight toning that has not eaten into the surface of the coin and it is one of those specific usa federalcoins that take well to this sort of preservation then when it all comes together it makes for a perfect scenerio and the coin technically and for all intensive purposes looks like it is a freshly well struck problem free coin just coming off the dies
now again this does happen at ncs but it is few and far between so only buy the few and far between coins and also have the experiance to tell as such and only with coins that take well to preservation as they have little to light surface patina and nothing else on the coin other than that
well then you got a great coin and again the only problem is that the above coins like this are well shall we say extremely uncommon but if you look hard enough they are out there and i have seen 4 of such coins
<< <i>I thought that's what the star meant. >>
<< <i>I do not know this first hand, but have heard it from a couple differant people. PCGS will dip a coin for ya. How you get them to do this, is beyond me. >>
The only time PCGS will dip a coin is to correct a problem on a grade guarantee submission, or a return for a problem they created during the slabbing process.
Russ, NCNE
JMHO
Photos of the 2006 Boston Massacre
<< <i>I think you guys need to lose the stigma you have associated with "cleaned" coins and learn just to collect and enjoy them. >>
You gotta be joking Steve.
<< <i>the problem again starts with finding those needles in a haystack so to speak and having enough experience to be able to tell the quality of the preservation of the work the quality of the coin and if this coin looks like an original struck coin as there was no damage by surface layers that deposited as such over the years and the coin was properly done and still has the eye appeal flash and blast of a really original coin that just had a slight coating of dust dirt slight toning that has not eaten into the surface of the coin and it is one of those specific usa federalcoins that take well to this sort of preservation then when it all comes together it makes for a perfect scenerio and the coin technically and for all intensive purposes looks like it is a freshly well struck problem free coin just coming off the dies >>
Good point Michael.
Even some seasoned collectors could have problems spotting the "needles in a haystack" and end up with a problem coin that all the knowledgable collectors wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. I am not talking about coins that have been properly dipped.
The same goes for PCGS and all those "conserved" shipwrecked double eagles.
It kind of taints the game for me.
so then only buy the no brainer coins within your speciality that YOU can identify as such that are either totally superb and original
or again totallly superb but have been preserved and where totally fantastic COINS to start with and only a light layer of patina above the surface of the coin and without any other imprefections on the coin so the coin after presevvation basically comes looking like it just left the dies with flash blast and extraordinary eye appeal with no trace of preservation and with superb gem surfaces just likeit left the dies and also has been properly neutralized and now protected in a sonically sealed holder and stored in the right environment for maximum surface ptotection from the elements so that future generations of collectors can enjoy looking at a coin that looks as it was fresh off the dies
yes might be extremely hard to find but with enough looking you might be able to add a coin or two or three to your collection after many years of looking
sounds good to be but to each his own and collect what you like with money you can afford to lose and always ask yourself if this coin in this holder if i buy it would i be comfortable in cracking this coin out of its holder? if the answer is no then do not buy the coin
it is easy to do with the knowledge and examples that can be viewed on a sight seen in hand up close and personal basis
Edit to add below:
The Yes is not for my information but for the people that do not know what one of these coins look like. About two months ago a purchase was made sight unseen and the dealer was told that no conserved coins were acceptable. Either he did not know what a conserved coin looked like or he just decided to ignore my wishes. Anyway they are ugly.
Ken
<< <i>If the conservation of the coin is "market acceptable" then no notation is needed. If it isn't, then it's a problem coin and should be BB'd or net graded by any of the respectable TPGs. >>
GoYankees.........You nailed it!!!!
Michael....I can tell the difference between coins that are original and coins that have been conserved.....it's the newbies and the hobby as a whole that I worry about getting stuck with CRAP coins. btw...I would love to see your coin examples and further my knowledge of truely original coins with that special look.
fairlaneman just gave a perfact example of what I am talking about. Even though he is a real good grader and knows how to tell what coins have been conserved , he still ended up with one in his mailbox.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>What am I missing? I thought PCGS won't holder any coin that has been cleaned. >>
gyocomgd.....PCGS did holder a bunch of gold double eagle twenties that had been in salt water for decades. They were professionly conserved(cleaned).
<< <i>If it has a questionable look to your eye, why do you need a special mark on the slab insert? >>
Baley....Because alot of collectors can't tell if a coin has a questionable look to it. These collectors consider PCGS anc NGC certified coins somewhat of a safety net. Well buddy.....the safety net has a bunch of holes in it doesn't it?
If a coin is conserved *properly* it is actually being saved from harm, so I agree that coins should be taken at face value (heh), regardless of if they have been conserved or not. You either like the look of a coin or you don't, I don't think conservation should affect that decision. Having said that I think perhaps the issue is one of principal. I think some people are just bothered by the fact that the coin has been "touched" and is no longer "original", regardless of how well the conservation was done, and would prefer to be "warned" (I think I just used up my quote quota).
Personally, no, I don't think conserved coins should be marked as such.