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'52 Mantle scam: Extremely fishy

jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
Borrowed from another thread so more people will see it. Here is a '52 Topps Mantle PSA 7 with the bidding up to $15K at this hour.

Besides the private auction, only 3 feedbacks in more than 3 years (hijacked dormant account?), "will take offers," and the odd colors and brand-new appearance of the card, here's the clincher -- cert. #09011229 is not in the PSA database.

Edited: Others are getting a return on that number, but I'm still not.

The auction still stinks. It still looks like a reprint with off colors and the other factors are scary.

Comments

  • shagrotn77shagrotn77 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭✭
    While this seller's auctions do seem extremely fishy, the Mantle cert number is in the PSA database. Maybe you typed it in wrong.
    "My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭
    I typed in "09011229" and it come up in the PSA database.

    image
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭
    Brian
    I thought of checking the cert # too, figuring JR might have typed it wrong, but the issue is moot - that auction stinks. Somebody pointed out to the seller that his feedback showed he had bought this card on ebay for $117. His response was "Good catch! Thanks for letting me know." and then he made his feedback private. This guy is a wannabe crook.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
  • mudflap02mudflap02 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭
    jrdolan = owned

    I think you owe the seller 3 pity bids
  • jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
    Very odd -- I get this: Sorry no Matches for 09011229.

    But I'll edit the header and first post.
  • easttexascardsandgameseasttexascardsandgames Posts: 550
    His response was "Good catch! Thanks for letting me know." and then he made his feedback private.

    If people would learn how to use Ebay right hiding behind private feedback would not be a factor. I wish people would do their research before they bid on auctions like this.

    Everyone should try reporting him for soliciting off Ebay sales.. He is doing this by saying we will take offers.
    image
  • bowdowntomebowdowntome Posts: 398
    Thew Mantle card may be legit, but I'm betting the scan was lifted from somewhere else.

    The Brett and Smith rookie scans were both lifted from a Superior auction that ended in 2003. Notice how the scan quality is equal between the 2 but totally different with the Mantle?

    There are links to the Brett and Smith rookie, from the Superior auction, in the Brett thread on the Vintage forum.
    Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match.
    Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
    image
  • skigroppleskigropple Posts: 120
    The guy with the "good catch" email reply is this auction.
    Good catch reply
    Jim
    Buy anything for cheap and sell for more.
  • A761506A761506 Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
    The card, as odd as it looks, is legitimate. The scan has been stolen, as have the scans of the PSA 10 Ozzie Smith and George Brett rookies he's got listed. I think this guy is connected with Hall Of Fame Grading, which is a basement grading company running out of a P.O. box in Las Vegas. The guy who runs Hall Of Fame also has another set of flips for his holders, I can't remember what that "company" is, but it was out of a P.O. Box in Henderson, NV. Anyways, the only cards you'll find in those holders are counterfeits. The holders look similar to PSA's at a casual glance, the guy has a welder, and if he were to recreate a PSA flip, which isn't difficult to do in Photoshop, he could easily just seal a fake Mantle with a fake PSA flip into one of his holders and send it to the winning bidder. The Mantle card is registered in the set registry, although, I could not figure out by who or find it's picture. I didn't check the Smith or Brett, but they are clearly stolen from the same place, as the scans are identical. The seller will do the same thing with those cards, stick fakes (or perhaps trimmed originals, which may be easier to come by) into his holders with fake PSA tags.

    I honestly can't believe eBay continues to let this stuff go on. They have no policing ability what-so-ever. I run that 52 Mantle guide, and they actually shut it down a couple weeks ago because they say I was in violation of their listing policies. What idiots. I just relisted it after they didn't reply to a letter I sent them asking for permission to relist it, and pointing out how they have allowed this type of fraud to go on.

    Man, I hate people like this. eBay needs to catch a couple of these guys and hang them publically for the rest of the scammers to see. That would certainly curtail things for a while if people were concerned they would actually come after them.
  • bowdowntomebowdowntome Posts: 398
    The Brett and Smith scans were stolen from Superior auctions:

    Superior auctions Brett
    Superior auctions Smith

    Stealing scans from other auction houses past catalogs is one of the oldest tricks in the book, but if the auction house keeps there scans online, it isn't hard to track down where the pic came from. The problem is that not enough people get suspicious enough to investigate.
    Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match.
    Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
    image
  • BigRedMachineBigRedMachine Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭
    Okay, here's a question from a new guy. If this is fake, how the hell am I going to tell? I mean, I do my searches with PSA in the title so I don't get stuck with a fake and now these bozos have figured out a way to screw me anyway? I realize a little common sense is in order and the private feedback and low number of feedback looks fishy, but there is indeed a picture of a '52 mantle with psa 7. I don't know how to tell what is real and what isn't now. Now you got me thinking I have fakes hanging on my wall!!
  • Mac53Mac53 Posts: 805 ✭
    I have a couple of questions, too. How are you able to track down the identical PSA certification numbers? Do you just have to go through each auction, or is there some better way? Also, if the guy is able to do the things you talk about, why wouldn't he just seal the fake card up with a fake PSA tag? Or is he doing that anyway?
    "Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well."image
  • stevekstevek Posts: 29,033 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No question the guy is a scammer with a stolen scan. But nobody is going to send a guy like this $15,000. Those bids are his own shill bids. All that being said - I think spending at least a few months in prison would give him second thoughts about ever doing this again.
  • bowdowntomebowdowntome Posts: 398
    Tracking down scans like this isn't too hard. First, these scammers always pick high-end items, sometimes even unique to whatever hobby they are from, and they almost always find them on big name auction house websites. The more stupid scammers simply steal scans from other ebay auctions.
    Now, how many Gem Mint 10 Ozzie Smith rookies can there be? A simple Google search for "1979 Ozzie Smith Gem Mint 10" gives relatively few results, so all you gotta do is start eliminating the links that are not relevent. I would guess these scammers do the same thing to find their scans, so they probably just pick the first one they come to. Pretty easy to follow their messy little cyber trail.
    Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match.
    Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
    image
  • MorrellManMorrellMan Posts: 3,240 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Now, how many Gem Mint 10 Ozzie Smith rookies can there be? >>



    There are 3.
    Mark (amerbbcards)


    "All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
  • bowdowntomebowdowntome Posts: 398


    << <i>

    << <i>Now, how many Gem Mint 10 Ozzie Smith rookies can there be? >>



    There are 3. >>



    Wow, didn't know that! That's not that many for sure. So, if any of these have been bought or sold online, then their provenance should be pretty easy to follow, I'm guessing.
    Football collector 1948-1995, Rams oddball cards & memorabilia, Diamond match.
    Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
    image
  • TheCARDKidTheCARDKid Posts: 1,496 ✭
    Scammers love the big stuff. T206 Wagners and '52 Mantles. You'd think Ebay would catch on and monitor these auctions more closely.

    Don't hold your breath.....
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