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How will this Mantle grade?
A761506
Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭
It's a 1962 Bazooka panel... will PSA grade it with a number, and if so, what grade you think? (of course I'll clean up the other edges before submitting) Or, am I better off cutting out the Mantle card and going for a 9 on it? I have several other Bazooka panels I want to submit on Feb special but cannot figure out what to do with this one.
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My first thought is that the right border is only partially there; I'm not sure that as a panel it will get a number grade.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Dave
Now collecting:
Topps Heritage
1957 Topps BB Ex+-NM
All Yaz Items 7+
Various Red Sox
Did I leave anything out?
Jeff
1967 Topps baseball wantlists (any condition) welcome. #14 ATF 1967 set. Yet another collector like skylaneflyer, gimel1 who made it to the completion of 1967 only to need the money more than the company of 609 close friends.
Looking for 1967 Mets, yankees, and 1968 Tigers in PSA 7 and Venezuelan Norm Cash stuff
<< <i>How do you win with a card like this? If he cuts the Mantle, won't they say "evidence of trimming"? >>
No, it's supposed to be cut by hand. That's how it got separated from the Bazooka box in the first place. PSA grades hand-cut cards that are not available any other way. They won't grade sheet cards that are cut after issuance because factory-cut cards were available in packs. Bazooka, Hostess, Milk Duds, Keds and the like could only be had by cutting them off the box.
Some collectors don't care for the fact that "hand-cut" means you can turn a mid-grade card that was first hand-cut 20 or 40 years ago into a PSA 9 by performing a new, fresh cut -- assuming there is enough border outside the dotted lines to allow it. But what's PSA going to do? Do some kind of (expensive) forensic testing of the borders and decide that only cards cut within 2 years of issuance can be graded? Almost impossible to police, I would think. So it's either allow modern cutting of such cards or don't grade them at all ... and some people wish it was the latter.
you're ultimatlely trying to achieve with your submissions. If you are going for a graded '62 Bazooka panel set , the
cut of the panel is of paramount importance right off the bat. It's unfortunate, in the case of your Mantle panel, that
the right border is shaved. Long ago, that would not have mattered. In PSA standards, it's "AUTHENTIC." So,
ASSUMING you are looking for the biggest potential gain financially-speaking, I would hand-cut the Mantle using
an Exacto knife and a metal straight edge with a smooth bottom surface (so as not to scratch the fragile surface
of the card. Early Bazookas had a matte surface that scratched easily). Since PSA puts a premium on eye-appeal
for hand-cut cards, I would leave a good 1/16" border on the side-to-side dotted line borders. The top should be
evened out, though I realize that will be tricky since it's just a hair higher on the left side of the top border, as
opposed to the right side. You DON'T want to bring the top border down much, though. The bottom border only
needs to be evened out in the middle to remove that remaining printed portion of "cut on dotted line." Take your
time. Your heart will be in your throat. In the end, if successful, it should come out an 8 or a 9. The only detriment
is the print spot on Mickey's right shoulder as you face him. The colors are muted, as they were on all the '62's.
Sure, you'll destroy the panel, but with the shaved right border, what do you really have? Also, a nice individual
'62 Bazooka Mantle is a prized piece. Look at the Mantle Master Collection and see how many of the participants
have one. Lastly, don't you EVER frame a Bazooka panel. Yes, it would look nice. However, after awhile, the ultra-violet rays of the sun will s-l-o-w-l-y begin to bleach that panel out. UV damage is permanent, as would be your regret. Sure, cards should be displayed, but then covered after you're done admiring them. I could tell you a sad story about a Red Man Stan Musial I saw in a card shop but I've already gone too long. It's all up to you. Take care. -IndianaJones
I'm probably venting a little since I have a complete set of '69 Nabisco Wide Border version that is mostly cut neatly and evenly....Ten years ago, I'd have called every card NM-MT or Mint. In looking at it a couple days ago, most of the cards would even get a number grade. The cards are beautiful, but cut on the dotted lines or just right inside. I'd love to have it graded, but I just wouldn't be very satisfied with an "Authentic" set. I suppose there needs to be a standard, I'm just not sure this is a standard that a lot of people agree with.
<< <i>Does anyone else think the standards for hand-cut cards are a little silly? Let's say on this panel, for example, that he does neatly cut the Mantle card just outside the lines, and neatly trims the top and bottom just outside the lines as well. By PSA standards, the Stuart card is already not able to be assigned a grade, and this process will resign the Mahaffey to the same fate. Obviously the Mantle card is the real value here, but it seems a shame that to get a high grade for it, you have to essentially "ruin" one card. If the right border on the Stuart card were cut outside the lines, I suppose you'd be "ruining" two cards. Seems to me that a cut relatively close to the dotted (or implied) border should at least merit some number grade.
I'm probably venting a little since I have a complete set of '69 Nabisco Wide Border version that is mostly cut neatly and evenly....Ten years ago, I'd have called every card NM-MT or Mint. In looking at it a couple days ago, most of the cards would even get a number grade. The cards are beautiful, but cut on the dotted lines or just right inside. I'd love to have it graded, but I just wouldn't be very satisfied with an "Authentic" set. I suppose there needs to be a standard, I'm just not sure this is a standard that a lot of people agree with. >>
I agree. In fact, requiring that all the border be present makes it *less* likely that a PSA Mantle card was cut back in the day. When kids cut these in the sixties they cut ON the lines, not outside the lines. So, it follows that most all cards cut with the lines showing was cut very recently with the intention of submitting it to PSA.
<< <i>I think that is what differentiates higher quality examples from lower ones however. What did kids do with the majority of cards they handled? They played with them, thus damaging them, yet today some examples survive in prestine condition. Same thing with the hand-cuts... the majority were handled, but occasionally they are found intact with the border lines, which in my opinion should be a necessity to require a high grade. I just do not like the idea that in order to cut that Mantle card out to maximize the grade potential, I am going to have to destroy the Mahaffey card. I do not like destroying cards, especially ones which can easily be eligibile to become PSA 9's, which is why I've been so hesitant to chop up this panel. It really irks me when someone buys an intact Bazooka box with the intention of cutting it up for the sake of grading the cards. Really, in the future when the grading thing wears down a bit, I think the intact box would be far more rare and valuable than the cut out panel, anyone else agree with this logic? >>
100%
<< <i>Same thing with the hand-cuts... the majority were handled, but occasionally they are found intact with the border lines, which in my opinion should be a necessity to require a high grade. >>
I don't know that I feel strongly about it, but I'd like someone to explain why the borders need to be intact to grade the card. If they set a standard size for each issue and the card meets that size, I feel it should be graded. I suspect that you don't want a card to be recut in 2005 to fix a sloppy cut from 30 years earlier. But, how is that any different than cutting fresh panel in 2005? Neither cut was done by a kid who just finished his cereal/gum/whatever product the panel came with.
What percentage of handcut cards graded by PSA were cut precisely for that reason? What percentage of them were cut more than a year before they were submitted? My guess is that nearly all the graded hand-cut cards were cut from fresh panels by the person that submitted them. As I said above, kids are taught to cut *on the lines* and not "just outside the lines."
I know it's not a perfect analogy, but the correlation with sheet cut cards is clear. Why only grade panels that were recently cut while preventing any panel that was actually cut by a kid back in the day from getting slabbed? If we want to collect cards that survived the wear and tear of kids, bikes, little sisters and the decades, then I think we should at least allow the grading of cards cut on the border. If you want to say that they can't get a 10, maybe I'll agree with you. But why can't they get a 5 or an 8?