Another NTC horror story
clackamas
Posts: 5,615 ✭
I copied this from the rec.collecting.coins newsgroup
During the past couple of weeks I've had a few phone conversation with an
elderly man who was thinking of selling his collection of Morgan dollars and
Gold coins. He faxed me a list of about 80 coins that he had bought over
the last year, along with what he paid for them (close to $225,000). I
started to have a real sick feeling about this and asked him if he would
mind bringing in a few of the coins so I could look at them and give him a
better idea of what we could do for him.
He brought in 8 Morgan dollars, all graded by NTC. Here is what they are
and what he paid:
1879 S MS-67 $750
1880 S MS-66 $600
1881 O MS-66 $1800
1884 O MS-66 $800
1899 S MS-64 $900
1901 O MS-66 $1500
1921 MS-66 $1200
1921 S MS-66 $13000
I knew that at best, this was not going to be pretty, and at worst it might
be a coronary in the store. I asked him if he could leave them with me for
a couple of hours while I brought up recent auction history and price
guides.
When he returned, I explained that he was sold coins using the PCGS price
list for coins certified by a "3rd tier" grading company. I had printed out
recent eBay auctions with some of the exact coins in NTC holders and showed
him that the prices realized were 10% of what he had paid.
When I looked at these coins, every one of them was at least 3 points, and
the MS-67 5 points higher then the coin really was. The color literally
drained from his face. He then proceeded to tell me that he had brought
these from a telemarketing firm. Here was an 80 year old man who had just
lost $200,000+ to some scumbag telemarketer.
During the past couple of weeks I've had a few phone conversation with an
elderly man who was thinking of selling his collection of Morgan dollars and
Gold coins. He faxed me a list of about 80 coins that he had bought over
the last year, along with what he paid for them (close to $225,000). I
started to have a real sick feeling about this and asked him if he would
mind bringing in a few of the coins so I could look at them and give him a
better idea of what we could do for him.
He brought in 8 Morgan dollars, all graded by NTC. Here is what they are
and what he paid:
1879 S MS-67 $750
1880 S MS-66 $600
1881 O MS-66 $1800
1884 O MS-66 $800
1899 S MS-64 $900
1901 O MS-66 $1500
1921 MS-66 $1200
1921 S MS-66 $13000
I knew that at best, this was not going to be pretty, and at worst it might
be a coronary in the store. I asked him if he could leave them with me for
a couple of hours while I brought up recent auction history and price
guides.
When he returned, I explained that he was sold coins using the PCGS price
list for coins certified by a "3rd tier" grading company. I had printed out
recent eBay auctions with some of the exact coins in NTC holders and showed
him that the prices realized were 10% of what he had paid.
When I looked at these coins, every one of them was at least 3 points, and
the MS-67 5 points higher then the coin really was. The color literally
drained from his face. He then proceeded to tell me that he had brought
these from a telemarketing firm. Here was an 80 year old man who had just
lost $200,000+ to some scumbag telemarketer.
0
Comments
I don't participate on the RCC forum, but was wondering if someone tried to help the guy?
It is often possible to scare sellers like that into giving most of the money back, for fear of being reported and shut down. If someone hasn't already done so, they should put the buyer in touch with the FTC.
NoEbayAuctionsForNow
Also, I wish there was a way to stop this selling NTC slabs and quoting PCGS prices garbage, which is rampant on Ebay. This is another thing I would think the ANA could do something about.
Nevermind...Hang the SOB
Al
Dear Mr. Maguire:
Thank you for contacting the American Numismatic Association.
On February 3rd, New York's Attorney General's office announced in a press release, the guilty pleas of two Long Island men for running a coin boiler room scam that defrauded investors, many of them senior citizens. Paul M. Blaney and Robert Snyder operated U.S. Rare Coin Brokers, Inc. and Historic Collectibles, Inc. The two used telemarketers who identified themselves as brokers. It is estimated that over 1,000 people around the country purchased coins from the defendants. A restitution fund of over $600,000 has been established and will be administered by the Suffolk County Department of Probate. Below you will find a link to the Attorney General's official press release.
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/press/2005/feb/feb03a_05.html
If the elderly gentleman you spoke of purchased his coins through one of these companies he might be eligible for a part of the restitution fund.
If you want to forward my contact information to this gentleman I have other resources which may be of assistance to him even if he is not a member of
the ANA.
Sincerely,
Susan Procell
Consumer Protection Coordinator
American Numismatic Association
818 North Cascade Avenue
Colorado Springs, CO 80903
I just wish that they would talk to someone knowledgable
before they plunk down their retirement funds.
Camelot
One was an NTC and the other 2 were ANACS.
The NTC crossed. Guess which of the other did not?
Not trying to really make a statement here. Just a personal experience.
Loan Shark
Dave
My thoughts also- I don't understand why someone would work their whole lives and then, in an impulse, hand all of that to someone over the phone....
You have to understand,these older people worked and saved,and raised a family all their lives ,and know very little about
investing,all it takes is some swindler (con-man) on the phone to get their attention and make them feel wanted. They are trying to build up their nest egg to leave something to their children. Most live by themselves,and have no one to confide/ask....A sorry matter.
Al
Heritage has an excellent prices realized section with NO NTC coins.Teletrade has no prices realized section for NTC. Ebay allows a past month prices realized search for NTC coins and they number in the thousands. For the good of the hobby I would like to see NTC to just go away.
<< <i>This is sad, but who would invest $200K in ANYTHING without knowing anything about it?
Dave >>
He's 80. The faculitys fade. I'm taking care of my mother who was a very smart lady. She's now 85, and would of been fleeced by the scum suckers if it wasn't for a trust she set up that made me and my sister trustees.
Can you enlighten us as to how you know this?
It would be someone who is naive to think every company is good and a persuasive person who gains their trust. He probably was convinced he was getting a bargain. Taking advantage of a person's greed can be easy for the shysters.
embarrassed to report it..
........
Al
I'm Wes, and I'm the guy that made the original post over on RCC. I run Allgood Coin in St George, UT. Allgood Coin is where Jordan Allgood was murdered 14 months ago during a robbery. The crime was on America's Most Wanted and the police just last month made an arrest in the case.
I just joined the group here and don't want to jump in too much before I lurk for a while.
Thanks,
Wes
<< <i>I run Allgood Coin in St George, UT. Allgood Coin is where Jordan Allgood was murdered 14 months ago during a robbery. >>
Such a sad thing. It sometimes makes me think that I should stop collecting so as to not endanger myself or others.
As for this story about the elderly man being ripped off, well that just makes my blood boil. You have to be such a scumbag to do such things. Don't these people have respect. Damn!
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Barry (from RCC)