Are The Auctions Killing The Bourse????

elwood

If I've missed any thread relating to this topic, I apologize. But, has it been discussed how the auctions are affecting the activity and possible lack of attendance at the large coin shows and activity on the bourse in particular.
Any thoughts? Are auctions Good or Bad for the Bourse? Is it bad for Dealers? Are they good for Collectors?
How about sessions that are held during show hours? (Dealers have to leave their tables to attend these sessions. Collectors attend these sessions instead of spending time and money on the bourse)

With internet exposure of these auctions, people can just stay at home to buy coins and not ever have to attend a major show. Good or Bad for the hobby and the collector who collects this way. His/Her learning curve has to be far less with this form of collecting. No interaction with other collectors or dealers. Less hands on experience. Far fewer coins to look at and learn from.

Opinions?????

Bear

The auctions and to a greater degree,

the internet, are IMO, hurting the bourse.

monsterman

well..to be frank i think its the size of the auctions ( aka $$ ) that hurts....as in the u.s. monetary policy where as there is m1...m2 ...m3...so too is there a # that could be assigned to the dollar amount that is being pulled off the bourse and into the auction house(s) ..which in turn hurts some dealers..

the fact is.... theoretically....one needs to add all the auction money leaving and compute it with all the new money that is coming into the hobby since the quarter program started...from there you could analize the net effect....i will tell you that while i hear dealers complaining...they still show up...so it cant be that bad ...(the net net effect)

another barometer is the "other " slabers who have arrived or have surrived....noway should they of been here now if it wasnt for a tremendous influx of new collectors ...who started with the moderns

bottomline is...us old timers have to educate the newbies before they make too many mistakes and get run off...which is my #1 concern now

this will pi$$ some off but....a 2004 wisconsin with extra leaves is worth what someone will pay for it......and when they find another 50,000 of them and they loose their money......someone is going to get burned..period...and it wont sit well with many newbies

we all know a fool and their money are soon departed but gezz...how about promoting something that gives them a fighting chance

btw...i will put my money where my mouth is ...please tell me how to short wisconsins with "extra stalk" and we will all many a ton of money

monsterman

ms70

The dealers cutting out early aren't helping either, but that's a whole 'nuther story.........

ER

What Bear said.

mgoodm3

I have lived off the internet so far. I really want to go to a show so I can really see some coins. It will be nice to know what a coin will really looks like prior to buying it. A few dealers have really nice pictures that I have no issues with buying their coins, but that's only a few dealers.

monsterman

oppppps i forgot to say

what i get most out of shows is comradre with my buddies...while we are competitive we do appreciate each other`s coins

monsterman

ps...going to dinner and talking coins is a gas....everynight!!...and the stories>>>gezzz!!!!

elwood

<< <i>The dealers cutting out early aren't helping either, but that's a whole 'nuther story......... >>



What does that have to do with my question??
OT

lathmach

Ebay is knocking the heck out of coin shows.
Collectors aren't at the mercy of dealers when buying and selling now.
P.S........ I ran coin shows for a dozen years.

Ray

bullseye

I really don't see the auctions affecting shows. If anything, they are bringing more people to shows-where the auctions are held.

I never saw a lot viewing room anywhere near the size as the one at Fun. And everytime I went there, it was packed.

keets

hey elwood

i think we're getting into a situation where different segments of the hobby are in effect feeding off each other, taking away from each other. the growth of the "Market" in the past few years has meant more coins for more collectors but.......................it's also meant more shows, more dealers, more auction houses, more auctions, more web sites, more eBay listing. that all equates to more oppurtunity but also to more choice of where to spend our coin dollars. things are awful watered down at some shows as a result. it can get frustrating at shows for both collectors and dealers.

al h.

oreville

monsterman: Saw your rule #88. I missed your rule #53 and rule #32.

Help!

MrEureka

Seems to me that whatever the problem is, it will be short-lived. When auction firms learn to conduct their sales in a manner that does not substantially reward the physical presence of bidders, the auction room will empty out an the bourse will thrive.

RYK

what i get most out of shows is comradre with my buddies..

I agree with the monsterman. I go to shows for the comeraderie, and I buy coins from my favorite dealers when they return from the show.

elwood

Keets

The hobby is definitely evolving.

Nic

Hi Elwood,
The auctions draw people to the shows and indirectly the bourse. We have both bought and missed some of the best coins in both places. If YOU were at your table more the bourse would be better for both of us . Auction volumes will cycle; Ebay and the internet will grow. The experience, knowledge, and opportunities offered by the shows will never be replaced. I wish MM would by me dinner someday, however.

K

elwood

Bear...my 3 year old Daughter loves your icon. She was on my lap while I was combing her hair and she said it was cute and precious.

The thing I find sad (don't know if sad is the right word) is that many dealers have worked with collectors to build some of these collections and when it is time to sell, the dealer is given very little consideration and off the coins go to the auction house. It eliminates some of the buzz on the floor when a collection comes out.

Coinosaurus

<< <i>The experience, knowledge, and opportunities offered by the shows will never be replaced. >>



Yes, this nails it. There is no substitute for trolling the bourse floor and looking at as many coins as possible in the shortest amount of time. It is very hard to "learn" coins any other way.

elwood

Hey K


<< <i> If YOU were at your table more the bourse would be better for both of us >>


OUCH!!!
The auctions do make coins more available to a larger group of people, collectors and dealers. You don't have to be as TIGHT with the "In Crowd "to have a shot at lots of great coins. Therefore eliminating the need to develope relationships in the coin industry. Good or Bad!!

ARCO

I think the internet has merely opened doors for collectors, an extended avenue that did not exist before. I live in a relatively large metro area (Salt Lake City) but even in a city my size there are no large close shows. Long Beach is the closest and it means airfare, rental car, motel, etc. I started collecting again, BECAUSE OF the internet exposing me to coins, coin sites, coin information etc.

Part of the problem of being an internet collector is the lack of discernment in the photos/pics/scans, because of that inherit flaw I decided early on NOT to collect MS coins and to only stick with circulated examples precisely because I was not able to view the coins in person. If I were to collect MS coins, Bourse activity would be a priority for me, because I would want to get my mitts on the coin, rotate it in a light source of my choosing and to see how it really looks to MY eye, and not through an imcomplete scan.

The internet might have taken a small bite out of bourse activity, but in my opinion it has added that many more collectors to the hobby to compensate in part or whole what it has lured away.

Tyler

monsterman

opps i wanted to add

>>>Ebay is knocking the heck out of coin shows.
Collectors aren't at the mercy of dealers when buying and selling now.


if i were to buy a complete collection on ebay

and then duplicate it by buying at shows grade for grade

the ebay collection would loose every time...hands down period


no way an ebay buyer compete with sight seen...absolutely impossible


and i will put my money where my mouth is anytime for any nay sayers

monsterman


ps....i will start with the guy who has all his slabs in 1986 holders....and i will pay him grey sheet ask for everyone