Pointers and encouraging updates on : Reporting violations of rare coin listings to Ebay and the ANA

coinguy1

As I noted in two other threads earlier today (here is an edited version for purposes of this thread):

I just spoke to an ANA representative and have the following to report:

When Ebay receives complaints, those complaints ARE being forwarded to the ANA watchdog group - I can verify this, because I received confirmation that my most recent complaints were received at the ANA.

The ANA group reviews the complaints and then lets Ebay know what action should be taken, such as ending a listing or contacting winning bidders of items that have already been sold, etc.

The ANA group is apparently making considerable progress, even though a particularly bad Ebay seller discussed in those other threads has not been NARU'D by Ebay.

If you want to help, please continue to report listing violations to Ebay. Don't make accusations that can't be proved or make comments that might undermine your credibility - please stick with the facts and report actual violations to Ebay.

Thanks for your help!

Here is a link to report the violations to Ebay:

Link to report rare coin listing violations to Ebay and the ANA

Also, thanks to Bill, here is a link to Ebay's "Code Of Conduct" for selling coins on Ebay:

Link

coinguy1

Deleted repeat post - sorry.

RGL

Thanks, Mark. Added to my favorite links ...

LeeG

Nice Job and good info!! Lee

cosmicdebris

Excellent knews. Glad to hear the ANA is actively involved. I have been reporting violations like crazy lately especially after eBay updated their Code of conduct for selling coins on eBay.

One thing that really gets me is the seller from your threads about the National Mint Morgans is the same seller someone kept writing nasty things about in the petition I had up to get eBay to update their rules.

bgrice

Thanks for the information. There's a ton of money going through eBay via coin auctions and I would think one of the biggest offenders to scams besides eBaymotors.

Louis

Thanks for the tip, Mark.

FC57Coins

Thanks Mark - I guess you're OK

ElectricEye

well put

Koinlink

Bochiman

Good follow through Mark.
Way to look out for more than just yourself! I wish there were more like you!!!!

ksteelheader

Good job Mark.

All good things take time!

Ken

Heywood

Can a thread like this be made a "sticky"?

(Means it stays at top of first page)

This seems to be a hot topic every week, and bumps alot of other threads.

Edited - See that it already was made a sticky

mr1931S

• Sellers agree not to knowingly sell, exhibit, trade, produce, or advertise a copy or reproduction of any numismatic item if its nature is not clearly indicated by the word "copy" or "reproduction," incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. These items are allowed to be sold provided:
1) their sale does not violate applicable laws or copyrights,

re Copyrights:
Some time ago there was a thread on this board about an ebay seller who appeared to be trying to sell a raw coin but claimed in auction description and title that said coin was PCGS holdered.

The best, most expedient way to "get something done" about possible copyright violation is to report suspected copyright violation to ebay AND report suspected violation to the copyright/trademark owner.

coinguy1

Mr1874, in the case of the often discussed Ebay seller/lowlife, many of the listed items are within legitimate copyright guidelines and are marked "copy" etc. However, the seller either neglects to image that portion of the piece or does include an image, but intentionally blurs the relevant portion. I believe that is a problem for Ebay.

mr1931S

coinguy1:

Do you think that a "winning" argument could be made that violation of copyright law has occurred in the case of an ebay seller who has purposely obscured details in the image(s) of an offered "coin" that would or should clearly identify to prospective buyers that said "coin" is a replica or copy?

DennisH

Guess I'll have to renew my membership now that ANA is taking an aggressive, proactive role in making the hobby a better place for collectors.

coinguy1

<< <i>Do you think that a "winning" argument could be made that violation of copyright law has occurred in the case of an ebay seller who has purposely obscured details in the image(s) of an offered "coin" that would or should clearly identify to prospective buyers that said "coin" is a replica or copy? >>

Mr1874, my best guess is no, but I don't feel at all qualified to answer your question in a worthy manner - sorry.

mr1931S

That's fine, coinguy1. No need to be sorry.

It just occurs to me, that by obscuring key details (to wit, the word "copy") of images of a legally copyrighted product that is being offered for sale, one could be found to be infringing on the copyright itself.

The copyright owner would have to initiate the action is my guess.

monsterman

>>The copyright owner would have to initiate the action is my guess>>

the hard fact is...there are tens of thousands of infringements everyday.....but the fact of the matter is and the essence of every case is....what are the damages

so the 2 ingredients are

1) infringement
2) damages

and the bottomline is how much $$$ will it cost to "go get `em"

when the cost exceeds the damages its really of no moment

******however...case law shows that one has to show a history of protecting one`s copyrights so that defense council doesnt argue selective inforcement......thus the first shot across the bow is the standard cease and desist letter....

monsterman

Bear

I HAVE NEVER VIOLATED A RARE COIN LISTING.

OK, maybe I nibbled on a few.

coinguy1

It looks like Ebay has at least clamped down on the infamous seller "pjd1966".

I see that in her most recent listings (such as the one linked below) she is using the term "token" instead of "coin", for replicas.

While I still wish she had been NARU'D, this appears to be a real improvement. And, I will continue to keep a close watch on her new listings.

Link to a new listing of a " token"

cosmicdebris

She certainly needs a constant eye on her.

DorkGirl

Found another stolen ID with the same MO as the others....

1796

Six coins down from this one....

real auction

Up until 5 minutes ago there was a Rolex watch being sold by this same guy. That one has already been removed.

coinguy1

TTT, since there is more skullduggery/shenanigans going on

coinguy1

Trying a TTT again.

Edited to add: Thanks SM1.

cosmicdebris

Mark is the ANA looking for volunteers to help work with eBay on this effort?

coinguy1

<< <i>Mark is the ANA looking for volunteers to help work with eBay on this effort? >>

Bill, not that I know of, but I hope to learn more next week.

coinguy1

More progress:
Ebay seller "pjd1966" actually used the word "copy" in listing title!



Link for reporting listing violations to Ebay/the ANA

DorkGirl

Finally, good news. I just went and checked it again, it is bid up to over $40. It's got to be shill bidding. She's so tricky on so many levels

cosmicdebris

Excellent! About time pjd1966 got spanked. But she still does not have a picture of the word "COPY" stamped on the item shown.

Shamika

"LOOKS ALL GOOD TO ME."

What an asinine phrase.

cosmicdebris

This thread should also have links to eBay rules:

SELLING COINS ON EBAY

"Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay

ksteelheader

Ebay needs to rid itself of private auctions. Any good reason for having a private auction is outweighed many times over by bad reasons!

Bochiman

Somewhat agree.
Private auctions should only be allowed in the adult area Where Cameron and George can't play

Or, if allowed elsewhere, they should have to actually have a VAT (Value added tax) added and have to be visually approved by someone at ebay whose butt is on the line if it is bogus material

Deadhorse

Holy Schnittts!!

I did a google on our favorite seller and got lost in all the pages about Pam and Jim.

Apparently they left a mesage on a coin collector forum just today, 2-21-05, but the forum was nameless. This comes from ripoffreport.com, this is the message they left:


"I Am A Powerseller With Over 27000 Poss. Feedbacks. You Cannot Talk About Me Like This. I Make Millions And Can Afford To Sue All You Newbees Into The Poorhouse!!!!!!! I Need To Know Who Moderates These Posts. I Will Not Tolerate Such Disrespect For Powersellers. On Ebay They Give Respect I Deserve With A Rep To Remove Any Bad Post About Me With 2 Min. Phone Calls. I Will Do To You What I Did To Numismagician, -smedley- , Ben_dover, 12 Other Posters, And Almost Everyone Who Has Left Me Insubordinate Negs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!this Looks All Bad To Me And I Wont Tolerate It Anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!get Ready For Summonses For Libel!!!!!!!!!!!!i Will Be Selling Your Collections As Found In My Bank Box Today Eventually!!!!!!!!!!!!!!avoid Crossing Me Like The Black Death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Looks like somebody is getting a little upset. Whew. Let's keep it up.


Edit: link to post ------> http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff74365.htm

Reece

hi

tradedollarnut

Over the weekend, I reported three trade dollar fakes:

1878-CC

1877-CC

1878-CC

Unfortunately, they're all still there and a couple of them close soon with pidgeons waiting to be plucked!

susanlynn9

Hi everyone,

I've been following our Savannah Scammer buddy for some time now. Every day I check the auctions that she has listed and report any that are in blatant violation and research the rest. I saw the post she made on that other forum. It was a forum that I used to be very active on. She never did get the balls to respond to any of the replies made and the thread has since been deleted.

She made that post the day after I received notification from eBay that the auctions that I reported had been removed by them. There are a number of reports on Ripoff Report if anyone is interested also (I posted on the most recent (Susan Medford, NJ). I think the Pam that posted on that other forum is a very scared individual and she should be. I'm sick and tired of eBay being known as unsafe and a haven for scammers because of sellers like her.

As a powerseller on eBay myself, I see no reason why that venue can't be made safe for collectors. And with all of us working together, one day it will be!

cosmicdebris

Hi Sue what was this other forum?

P.S. Anyont see this LARGE CENT AUCTION?

susanlynn9

Coin Talk.

I was actually surprised that the thread stayed active as long as it did. I think it ran for almost 4 hours before it was pulled.

susanlynn9

Oh, and here's another one that got taken by our scamming little buddy:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff132400.htm

cosmicdebris

<<I think it ran for almost 4 hours before it was pulled. >>

No wonder I could not find it. I am surprised we have not seen her around here.

susanlynn9

I think she periodically does a search for her seller ID and tries to stir up some trouble with her threats at whatever forum is at the top. Let's face it, she is talked about all over the place, so she has a lot of sites to pick from.

I was able to get 6 of her "Colonial Silver" auctions pulled when I also sent the auction that she had purchased them in. The auction she purchased was for 6 Polish coins. That kept me laughing for 2 straight days

Checking her listings has become the first thing I do in the morning and the last thing I do at night just so I can be sure to report any violations with the most time still left in the auctions. I'll get so much more work done once she's NARU'd.

SFDukie

Hi All,
First as a newbie (well, I actually was a fairly avid collector in my teens, but have returned to the hobby after a long absence...)
I appreciate the policing of ebay, and in particular this outrageous savanna ripoff artist. (I've enjoyed buying there but have tried to be extremely careful. ) I reported one of her auctions which was merely misleading and of course nothing happened. (she had clipped a notation off of a corner of the flip pictured-which was a caveat re the coin)
A question- I realize that many of these rare coins are copies- but how does one KNOW that for instance, the rare trade dollars listed by her are copies?
Thanks!
Don

susanlynn9

Hi SFDukie,

There are different points on each coin, sometimes it's in the design, sometimes you can tell from denticulation. The best way to determine the authenticity is to have the coin in hand. Most copies weigh significantly lighter than the genuine coins. Sometimes, it's also possible to tell from the picture that the coin is simply not silver. Most of the copies are done in base metals.

Participation in forums like this one will go a long way to protect you from the scam artists. There are always collectors who want to help their fellow collectors. With the scam market as prevalent as it is, we all need to stick together and help wherever we can. You can always post pictures or auction links and ask for opinions. None of us wants to see a fellow collector get scammed. The best advice would be to purchase these coins only if they have been authenticated/slabbed by one of the top tier grading companies (PCGS, NGC, ANACS, or ICG). Overall, from what I've seen, PCI can also be relied on for authentication, though I personally have disagreed with many of their assigned grades.

Here is a link to a Coin Buying Tips page that I designed with the eBay buyer in mind. It is also useful for any coin purchases that are "sight-unseen".

Coin Buying Tips

There are also other forums that are populated with knowledgeable collectors. Participation on multiple forums will give you a greater diversity of opinions and expertise. The link below is for my forum. We have a different group of people there with a wealth of knowledge that we want to share. The more opinions and resources you have, the more educated and protected you are.

Coin Community Forum

I hope this information helps you. It's important to remember that the only stupid question is the one that doesn't get asked. We all have to stick together.

Deadhorse

Given this seller's history, it's a safe bet that ANY trade dollar she auctions is a FAKE!!

When the coin actually says copy on it, as do some of her "proof" 89 CC Morgans, she will only show a picture of the obverse. If, by chance there is an reverse picture, you will notice a glare over the area where the word copy is located. Some might fall for it, thinking it's just a badly taken picture. I've seen such pictures on so many occasions that there is no question that it is intentional.

Sometimes I've wondered how many pics they had to take to make sure the glare covered the word "copy" completely.

cosmicdebris

SAVANNAH SCAMMER NARUED

One down who's next.

susanlynn9

Truly awesome news!!!!!!!

I'm with Cosmic....who's next? We now have proof that, if we all work together, we can accomplish a lot. There are still a lot of scammers on eBay (and elsewhere), so what's next?

mrdq

bump

coinguy1

TTT, since pjd1966/the Savannah scammer s is back on Ebay under a new ID (jdonnellysr).

Here is the link to report violations to Ebay :Link for reporting of listing violations

Edited to add: Please report this other identity (jdonnellysr) to Ebay as being the same seller (pjd1966) who was recently suspended, in case by some miracle Ebay is unaware of it AND cares - thanks.