Thanks for the reply and good suggestions Ken. Why did you wait for someone to ask before you spoke up?
<< <i>Has it ever occured that ebay may be working on problems and having a hard time getting things accomplished? >>
Perhaps in some instances, but not with this seller - again, this has been going on for a LONG time and Ebay clearly could have acted had they wanted to.
<< <i>Has it ever occured that ebay may be working on problems and having a hard time getting things accomplished? >>
The first thing eBay would have to do is acknowledge that it DOES have problems. Especially in the COINS category.
With the BILLION$ eBay makes, they could eliminate fraud when it is as obvious as it is with this seller in a nonosecond...if they really wanted to!! It's painfully apparent they turn a blind eye to their "Cash Cow's" activities and not just because they're "busy".
Presently the only direct open line to eBay to help stop fraudulent activity concerning coins IS SENDING IN REPORTS. With as many reports that are generated by victims and others spotting this obvious exploitation, eBay should have acted long ago.
Perhaps sending in reports may be"clogging the system", but you would think with the many reports about the same seller over the years this seller has been screwing others, Ebay Security would have spotted and acted on this obvious trend.
I guess my brand of thinking goes along with many of the other forum members in that FRAUD IS CRIME.
I'm sorry. I take coin fraud personally and have a hard time thinking anyone else involved in our hobby or business would do otherwise.
It's easy to speak of "Caveat Emptor...Buyer Beware" and stand by and do nothing about it except criticize others who do more than just...talk.
Reporting CRIME is not only our responsibility to protect others involved in our hobby or profession, but our responsibility as good citizens.
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
"Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay 3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking.
"Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay
3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking. Just how hard is this to understand ksteelheader?
<< <i>"Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay
3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking. Just how hard is this to understand ksteelheader? >>
Just read what I've typed in this thread and show me where I have said the seller is right or it's not a copy or reproduction! Now put up or shut up!
I thing the root cause is that these copies were even made!! What idiot thought to make a copy of rare coins and sell them without thinking that they may be used to mislead someone.
i have *no* problem with reproductions, nor the people who make them legally, stamped with "COPY" clearly, and sold stating such.
to borrow a line from the NRA crowd,... "repros don't fraud people, people do."
now if i bought one of those pieces *legally*, a shiny $20 COPY of what would be a $10,000-$100,000+ coin, and i plop it on ebay, only showing the side without COPY, and never mentioning that fact, listing the item as "coin stuff, neat! LQQK"
*I* would be breaking the law. the maker of the repro would have made $20 legally. the buyer of my auction would have been the vitcim of my fraud, whether it was greed or ignorance led him to purchase.
i'd start here and work down the list keeping track, i'm sure the seller has shot themselves in the foot on one of these listings and actually commited a crime, rather than merely being a shady seller. keep track, once it's a great enough amount someone will take notice of the fraud. that private feedback wont stop the authorizies from finding out who bought what items once it's clear they have scammed so many thousand on such mis-represented items.
then again, many places in cyberland are still very much like the wild west.....you do what you can get away with till caught.
I just spoke to an ANA representative and have the following to report:
When Ebay receives complaints, as in the case of this seller, those complaints are being forwarded to the ANA watchdog group - I can verify this because I just received confirmation that my most recent complaints were received at the ANA.
The ANA group reviews the complaints and then lets Ebay know what action should be taken, such as ending a listing or contacting winning bidders of items that have already been sold, etc. The ANA group is apparently making considerable progress, even though this particular Ebay seller has not been NARU'D by Ebay.
If you want to help, please continue to report listing violations to Ebay. Don't make accusations that can't be proved or make comments that might undermine your credibility - please stick with the facts and report actual violations to Ebay.
<< <i>Which is worse, the fraudster or the stupidity of the bidiots being ripped? >>
Please allow me to rephrase your question in a way that might shed some light on the correct answer: Which is worse, the rapist or the person who allows herself to be raped?
Just look at this moron's feedback. One buyer noticed this after he was fleeced and left a neg. This is why I always check feedback first before commiting to buying. Looks like same buyers for hundreds of feedbacks. How come eBay does not notice? Same feedbacks from same buyers with the same amount of feedback ratings for hundreds of so called purchases? I don't get it.
The ANA group is apparently making considerable progress
Send them a dictionary, because I don't think they understand the meaning of the word "considerable." This entire episode is the antithesis of "considerable progress."
Russ, on that colonial coin, it appears to have a seam down the middle of the rim if you look close, I have a counterfeit one made just like this. The obverse is sanwiched to the reverse with glue------------BigE
<< <i>Russ, on that colonial coin, it appears to have a seam down the middle of the rim if you look close, I have a counterfeit one made just like this. The obverse is sanwiched to the reverse with glue------------BigE >>
The Nova Constellatio is a pewter cast copy. They sell those all over Savannah in gift shops for a couple of dollars each.
Sequitur, I, too, wish things were moving along much faster and more efficiently - I assure you, I have the "ability" to be as impatient (and as bothered about things like this) as anyone.
But, progress IS being made. The more people report sellers like this, the better the chances are that Ebay will act.
The ANA group is apparently making considerable progress?
Are you kidding me. How hard is it to see that she is violating the "Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay.
Code of Conduct
• Sellers agree not to knowingly sell, exhibit, trade, produce, or advertise a copy or reproduction of any numismatic item if its nature is not clearly indicated by the word "copy" or "reproduction," incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. These items are allowed to be sold provided:
1) their sale does not violate applicable laws or copyrights,
2) the item is incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof as a copy or reproduction on the front or back, and
3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking.
Thanks for your efforts with this. I think if everyone does their part, things like this can get cleaned up. You are definitely going above and beyond and looking out for all of our interests.
Always took candy from strangers Didn't wanna get me no trade Never want to be like papa Working for the boss every night and day --"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
The more people report sellers like this, the better the chances are that Ebay will act.
Well that's the real issue -- Ebay. I recognize that. But the ANA needs some cojones on this one. If they want to put some heat on, Mark, why don't you make the following recommendation: the ANA should hold a press conference and declare that, in the ANA's view, Ebay simply is not doing enough to protect hobbyists from massive fraud. And despite uncontrovertible evidence of ongoing frauds, Ebay has failed to meaningfully respond.
Then every week, week after week, the ANA should issue a press release about Ebay's continued failures to police its markets -- even in the face of rampant fraud. And this can be done cheaply -- a U.S. wire release costs just a few hundred dollars, perhaps a bit more.
Now that is effective action. And all manner of organizations do this every single damn day -- they highlight a problem, and expose it. Why has the ANA refused to do so?
<< <i>The more people report sellers like this, the better the chances are that Ebay will act.
Well that's the real issue -- Ebay. I recognize that. But the ANA needs some cojones on this one. If they want to put some heat on, Mark, why don't you make the following recommendation: the ANA should hold a press conference and declare that, in the ANA's view, Ebay simply is not doing enough to protect hobbyists from massive fraud. And despite uncontrovertible evidence of ongoing frauds, Ebay has failed to meaningfully respond.
Then every week, week after week, the ANA should issue a press release about Ebay's continued failures to police its markets -- even in the face of rampant fraud. And this can be done cheaply -- a U.S. wire release costs just a few hundred dollars, perhaps a bit more.
Now that is effective action. And all manner of organizations do this every single damn day -- they highlight a problem, and expose it. Why has the ANA refused to do so? >>
Gentlemen, I don't believe that the ANA has anywhere near that type of influence/power over Ebay. However, why don't you contact the ANA and pass your suggestions on to them (in a positive and polite fashion, so that they are more likely to hear your message).
However, why don't you contact the ANA and pass your suggestions on to them
Because, in truth, I'm a wannabe when it comes to these organizations and many aspects of the coin business. I don't know the players, they don't know me, and they have no reason to listen to some anonymous request that carries no weight.
But it sounds as though you, and others here, do indeed know the right people. This is your business, and you know it better than I. Your informed recommendation will mean something.
<< <i>Which is worse, the fraudster or the stupidity of the bidiots being ripped? >>
Please allow me to rephrase your question in a way that might shed some light on the correct answer: Which is worse, the rapist or the person who allows herself to be raped? >>
Not quite the same thing, Newsman. The bidiot is voluntarily initiating the transaction here.
...And if anyone reports this to the ANA, PLEASE recommend to them that eBay gets rid of PRIVATE auctions and the Seller's ability to hide their feedback!!
These "Hidden" auctions and feedbacks are a license to steal especially in the COINS and CURRENCY categories!!
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
Take a look at the stuff she is buying. Other than shipping stuff, she only seems to buy reproduction and copy coins.
She bought the listed as fake gold doubloons in early January and then sold them as the usual bank deposit box, "looks all good to me" stuff she always pulls.
If she gets it returned, she resells it. Sold one of the fake doubloons 5 times before some sucker apparently kept it.
I don't know how much more obvious the fraud has to be. This woman should be doing some serious time behind bars.
"Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>Which is worse, the fraudster or the stupidity of the bidiots being ripped? >>
Please allow me to rephrase your question in a way that might shed some light on the correct answer: Which is worse, the rapist or the person who allows herself to be raped? >>
Not quite the same thing, Newsman. The bidiot is voluntarily initiating the transaction here.
BTW, nice having lunch with you in Baltimore. >>
It's true that the bidder is a willing victim, but we can't lose sight of the fact that the seller is a criminal. A crime is a crime regardless of whether the victim is stupid or negligent in some way, and it's proper and admirable for people like Mark Feld to be good citizens and thwart those with criminal intent. All successful con jobs depend on willing marks, but that doesn't make them any less illegal. Otherwise, we should just let all the Enron executives go and drop the charges against them because, after all, the stockholders who lost money were willing buyers.
It might be incredibly stupid of me to leave my front door wide open when I'm away from home, but it's still a burglary if someone walks in and helps himself to my stuff.
This listing (3957901722) has been removed by eBay or is no longer available. Please make sure that you've entered the item number correctly. If the item was removed by eBay, please consider this transaction canceled. If anybody contacts you to complete the sale, please ignore the request. Completing the sale outside of eBay may be unsafe and will not be covered by eBay purchase protection programs.
It seems that they did take the two coins in question links off ebay but the savannah slammmer is still in business...I guess when you run 300 + auctions a week, it is pretty hard to throw away your meal ticket......
• Sellers agree not to knowingly sell, exhibit, trade, produce, or advertise a copy or reproduction of any numismatic item if its nature is not clearly indicated by the word "copy" or "reproduction," incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. These items are allowed to be sold provided: 1) their sale does not violate applicable laws or copyrights,
re Copyrights: Some time ago there was a thread on this board about an ebay seller who appeared to be trying to sell a raw coin but claimed in auction description and title that said coin was PCGS holdered.
The best, most expedient way to "get something done" about possible copyright violation is to report suspected copyright violation to ebay AND report suspected violation to the copyright/trademark owner.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Comments
<< <i>Has it ever occured that ebay may be working on problems and having a hard time getting things accomplished? >>
Perhaps in some instances, but not with this seller - again, this has been going on for a LONG time and Ebay clearly could have acted had they wanted to.
<< <i>Has it ever occured that ebay may be working on problems and having a hard time getting things accomplished? >>
The first thing eBay would have to do is acknowledge that it DOES have problems. Especially in the COINS category.
With the BILLION$ eBay makes, they could eliminate fraud when it is as obvious as it is with this seller in a nonosecond...if they really wanted to!! It's painfully apparent they turn a blind eye to their "Cash Cow's" activities and not just because they're "busy".
Presently the only direct open line to eBay to help stop fraudulent activity concerning coins IS SENDING IN REPORTS. With as many reports that are generated by victims and others spotting this obvious exploitation, eBay should have acted long ago.
Perhaps sending in reports may be"clogging the system", but you would think with the many reports about the same seller over the years this seller has been screwing others, Ebay Security would have spotted and acted on this obvious trend.
I guess my brand of thinking goes along with many of the other forum members in that FRAUD IS CRIME.
I'm sorry. I take coin fraud personally and have a hard time thinking anyone else involved in our hobby or business would do otherwise.
It's easy to speak of "Caveat Emptor...Buyer Beware" and stand by and do nothing about it except criticize others who do more than just...talk.
Reporting CRIME is not only our responsibility to protect others involved in our hobby or profession, but our responsibility as good citizens.
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
-----
Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking.
3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking.
Just how hard is this to understand ksteelheader?
Doesn't matter what they're selling, I ain't buying..........
<< <i>"Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay
3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking.
Just how hard is this to understand ksteelheader? >>
Just read what I've typed in this thread and show me where I have said the seller is right or it's not a copy or reproduction! Now put up or shut up!
What idiot thought to make a copy of rare coins and sell them without thinking that they may be used to mislead someone.
I mean thats like if they made a 3 legged buffalo copy. Why would the government allow this??
stupid, stupid, stupid..
What idiot thought to make a copy of rare coins and sell them without thinking that they may be used to mislead someone.
Royal Oak Mint
i have *no* problem with reproductions, nor the people who make them legally, stamped with "COPY" clearly, and sold stating such.
to borrow a line from the NRA crowd,... "repros don't fraud people, people do."
now if i bought one of those pieces *legally*, a shiny $20 COPY of what would be a $10,000-$100,000+ coin, and i plop it on ebay, only showing the side without COPY, and never mentioning that fact, listing the item as "coin stuff, neat! LQQK"
*I* would be breaking the law. the maker of the repro would have made $20 legally. the buyer of my auction would have been the vitcim of my fraud, whether it was greed or ignorance led him to purchase.
--Severian the Lame
If I hear anything worth repeating I will report back.
book 'em, danno.
the fraudsters completed auctions sorted by price.
i'd start here and work down the list keeping track, i'm sure the seller has shot themselves in the foot on one of these listings and actually commited a crime, rather than merely being a shady seller. keep track, once it's a great enough amount someone will take notice of the fraud. that private feedback wont stop the authorizies from finding out who bought what items once it's clear they have scammed so many thousand on such mis-represented items.
then again, many places in cyberland are still very much like the wild west.....you do what you can get away with till caught.
And this one that sold for $1625?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Did I see $4000 for an AU/XF 84-S? >>
Might be an '84-S. No reverse pic provided.
Russ, NCNE
When Ebay receives complaints, as in the case of this seller, those complaints are being forwarded to the ANA watchdog group - I can verify this because I just received confirmation that my most recent complaints were received at the ANA.
The ANA group reviews the complaints and then lets Ebay know what action should be taken, such as ending a listing or contacting winning bidders of items that have already been sold, etc. The ANA group is apparently making considerable progress, even though this particular Ebay seller has not been NARU'D by Ebay.
If you want to help, please continue to report listing violations to Ebay. Don't make accusations that can't be proved or make comments that might undermine your credibility - please stick with the facts and report actual violations to Ebay.
Thanks!
<< <i>Which is worse, the fraudster or the stupidity of the bidiots being ripped? >>
Please allow me to rephrase your question in a way that might shed some light on the correct answer: Which is worse, the rapist or the person who allows herself to be raped?
Send them a dictionary, because I don't think they understand the meaning of the word "considerable." This entire episode is the antithesis of "considerable progress."
<< <i>Russ, on that colonial coin, it appears to have a seam down the middle of the rim if you look close, I have a counterfeit one made just like this. The obverse is sanwiched to the reverse with glue------------BigE >>
The Nova Constellatio is a pewter cast copy. They sell those all over Savannah in gift shops for a couple of dollars each.
But, progress IS being made. The more people report sellers like this, the better the chances are that Ebay will act.
Are you kidding me.
How hard is it to see that she is violating the "Code of Conduct" for Selling Coins & Paper Money on eBay.
Code of Conduct
• Sellers agree not to knowingly sell, exhibit, trade, produce, or advertise a copy or reproduction of any numismatic item if its nature is not clearly indicated by the word "copy" or "reproduction," incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof. These items are allowed to be sold provided:
1) their sale does not violate applicable laws or copyrights,
2) the item is incused in the metal or printed on the paper thereof as a copy or reproduction on the front or back, and
3) the listing title AND description clearly state that the item is a copy or reproduction and includes an image of the marking.
Thanks for your efforts with this. I think if everyone does their part, things like this can get cleaned up. You are definitely going above and beyond and looking out for all of our interests.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Well that's the real issue -- Ebay. I recognize that. But the ANA needs some cojones on this one. If they want to put some heat on, Mark, why don't you make the following recommendation: the ANA should hold a press conference and declare that, in the ANA's view, Ebay simply is not doing enough to protect hobbyists from massive fraud. And despite uncontrovertible evidence of ongoing frauds, Ebay has failed to meaningfully respond.
Then every week, week after week, the ANA should issue a press release about Ebay's continued failures to police its markets -- even in the face of rampant fraud. And this can be done cheaply -- a U.S. wire release costs just a few hundred dollars, perhaps a bit more.
Now that is effective action. And all manner of organizations do this every single damn day -- they highlight a problem, and expose it. Why has the ANA refused to do so?
<< <i>The more people report sellers like this, the better the chances are that Ebay will act.
Well that's the real issue -- Ebay. I recognize that. But the ANA needs some cojones on this one. If they want to put some heat on, Mark, why don't you make the following recommendation: the ANA should hold a press conference and declare that, in the ANA's view, Ebay simply is not doing enough to protect hobbyists from massive fraud. And despite uncontrovertible evidence of ongoing frauds, Ebay has failed to meaningfully respond.
Then every week, week after week, the ANA should issue a press release about Ebay's continued failures to police its markets -- even in the face of rampant fraud. And this can be done cheaply -- a U.S. wire release costs just a few hundred dollars, perhaps a bit more.
Now that is effective action. And all manner of organizations do this every single damn day -- they highlight a problem, and expose it. Why has the ANA refused to do so? >>
HELL YES!
Because, in truth, I'm a wannabe when it comes to these organizations and many aspects of the coin business. I don't know the players, they don't know me, and they have no reason to listen to some anonymous request that carries no weight.
But it sounds as though you, and others here, do indeed know the right people. This is your business, and you know it better than I. Your informed recommendation will mean something.
<< <i>
<< <i>Which is worse, the fraudster or the stupidity of the bidiots being ripped? >>
Please allow me to rephrase your question in a way that might shed some light on the correct answer: Which is worse, the rapist or the person who allows herself to be raped?
Not quite the same thing, Newsman. The bidiot is voluntarily initiating the transaction here.
BTW, nice having lunch with you in Baltimore.
These "Hidden" auctions and feedbacks are a license to steal especially in the COINS and CURRENCY categories!!
If I only had a dollar for every VAM I have...err...nevermind...I do!!
My "Fun With 21D" Die State Collection - QX5 Pics Attached
-----
Proud Owner of
2 –DAMMIT BOY!!! ® Awards
She bought the listed as fake gold doubloons in early January and then sold them as the usual bank deposit box, "looks all good to me" stuff she always pulls.
If she gets it returned, she resells it. Sold one of the fake doubloons 5 times before some sucker apparently kept it.
I don't know how much more obvious the fraud has to be. This woman should be doing some serious time behind bars.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Edited to add: Spooky. I did not even recognize myself (by the icon) after I posted this.
Wow! $4,000 for this . . .
Link
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Which is worse, the fraudster or the stupidity of the bidiots being ripped? >>
Please allow me to rephrase your question in a way that might shed some light on the correct answer: Which is worse, the rapist or the person who allows herself to be raped?
Not quite the same thing, Newsman. The bidiot is voluntarily initiating the transaction here.
BTW, nice having lunch with you in Baltimore. >>
It's true that the bidder is a willing victim, but we can't lose sight of the fact that the seller is a criminal. A crime is a crime regardless of whether the victim is stupid or negligent in some way, and it's proper and admirable for people like Mark Feld to be good citizens and thwart those with criminal intent. All successful con jobs depend on willing marks, but that doesn't make them any less illegal. Otherwise, we should just let all the Enron executives go and drop the charges against them because, after all, the stockholders who lost money were willing buyers.
It might be incredibly stupid of me to leave my front door wide open when I'm away from home, but it's still a burglary if someone walks in and helps himself to my stuff.
BTW, my wife and I enjoyed the lunch, too.
<< <i>It is tempting to buy something from her just to neg her >>
Another forum member did that and was immediately NARU'd by eBay.
Russ, NCNE
Link to report rare coin listing violations to Ebay and the ANA
Something has worked.
--Severian the Lame
This listing (3957901722) has been removed by eBay or is no longer available. Please make sure that you've entered the item number correctly.
If the item was removed by eBay, please consider this transaction canceled. If anybody contacts you to complete the sale, please ignore the request. Completing the sale outside of eBay may be unsafe and will not be covered by eBay purchase protection programs.
09/07/2006
Ebay link to item list
1) their sale does not violate applicable laws or copyrights,
re Copyrights:
Some time ago there was a thread on this board about an ebay seller who appeared to be trying to sell a raw coin but claimed in auction description and title that said coin was PCGS holdered.
The best, most expedient way to "get something done" about possible copyright violation is to report suspected copyright violation to ebay AND report suspected violation to the copyright/trademark owner.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein