More grading help needed

syraq

I can't upload the photo, it's an item on German ebay, so here's the link : Rare 1834 2 lepta


Grade?

What are all these black spots?

What's happening at 7 o' clock on the obverse?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.Thanks.

D

ajaan

I think the 7 o'clock is just a bigger spot. I've seen spots like those on South African Proof Sets from the 1960s. I think it is from how it was stored. Without spots I would grade it MS66 RED. With, maybe MS63.

newbiecollector

I have some copper (maybe from SA) that have developed these spots after I bought them. I have no idea why. Others I have stored they same way are still as purchased.

In my opinion it really distracts from the apperance of the coin for me.

MSD61

The spots look like carbon spots which means the coin has been exposed to moisture. I have them on some of my copper mostly the pennies from U.S. mint sets and a few of my 1926 Indian 1/12 Annas. I also notice some scratching at the bottom of the coin (about 7-8 o'clock) under the shield. Looks like someone tried to remove some of those spots.

lordmarcovan

I would say 63 RD with a shot at 64, not counting the scratches. Looks like those might be carbon spots. I doubt they could be safely treated.

I think there are some hairline scratches on the center of the shield as well as the ones you noted at 7:00 on the obverse rim. There appears to be a die break at 8:00 on the reverse.

How rare is this coin? I like the color and think it is very pretty- it has some definite positive attributes, but unfortunately the spots and the hairlines are a detracting factor.

If it is a truly rare piece you're not likely to see again for some time, then perhaps the positives and the negatives balance out. If, however, there is the possibility of finding better ones, I would pass on this one unless it was a screaming bargain, pricewise. Overall I do not find its appearance too objectionable. The color is awesome.

MacCrimmon

I blew this image up and sharpened the edges and it definitely appears to have had some carbon spots "worked on". The scratches are a bigger factor than just having left it alone. It does appear to have nice original color and lustre, though.

It's too toned down in the fields to be graded RD, IMO. I would guess a 63RB based on the images......pricewise, I have no earthly idea.

syraq

I think there are some hairline scratches on the center of the shield as well as the ones you noted at 7:00 on the obverse rim.


Rob, these lines in the center of the cross are not hairlines, they are the Bavarian shield, a reminder of the monarch's descendance.


Looks like those might be carbon spots. I doubt they could be safely treated.



Not even by NCS? This is a very expensive coin. Is it possible to stop them at least? To make sure that new ones won't appear and that these won't get bigger?






I also notice some scratching at the bottom of the coin (about 7-8 o'clock) under the shield. Looks like someone tried to remove some of those spots.

I blew this image up and sharpened the edges and it definitely appears to have had some carbon spots "worked on".



That's what I thought too.




How rare is this coin?I like the color and think it is very pretty- it has some definite positive attributes, but unfortunately the spots and the hairlines are a detracting factor.




As with every Greek copper of the period except 1833,it is very rare in this condition. 1834 is a particularly tough date. So, the question is : will it slab? or will it get BBed because of the tooling? If it does slab, 63RB let's say, then I'll go for it,I don't think I've ever encountered this date and denomination in BU more than twice in my life. Of course my chances of winning it, are infinetely small, but the last thing I'd need is end up with a problem coin of this caliber, that cannot be certified.


So, my good friends, will it slab? And thanks for all your answers so far.

MacCrimmon

Will it slab?

That fiery lustre is nice. Well, ANACS would almost certainly slab it. NGC? I'd make it 50/50. If the damage at 7K on the obverse is mechanical damage from dinking with some carbon in that area, then my guess is PCGS would bag it.

That's my 2 lepta.....sorry, couldn't resist.

MacCrimmon

So, was that a fair price?

syraq

The coin cats at 2000 euros ($2600) in the new Stratoudakis 2004, the most upto date prices for Greek coins, so yes 1125 euros must be a fair price. My initial snipe before I posted this thread was slightly above that amount, but the winner would have still outbid me. It's a very rare coin in this condition - period.I'll have the chance to see it in hand, I received a triumphant email from the winner today, a friend of mine, and I wasn't exactly sure what to say...

I like the guy and I hope it gets slabbed as 63RB if only due to its rarity.

rhound1977

Over all not a bad looking bit of copper for a 170 years, I hope it works out well of you, I like it....