what to toss, what to keep (newbie questions)
kellymac
Posts: 32
gotta start somewhere . . . this is so intimidating, with the majority of posters in the 1000+ posts range
I was cleaning out my dad's house, and found, buried until 10 years of "stuff," a bucket of coins. This was pocket change, but had sat undisturbed for 10 years (until I came along and shook and shuffled it). Unfortunately, he thought the same container would be an ideal place to toss rubber bands!! Of the coins that were not in direct contact with the rubber, there were plenty of examples of late 80's to early 90's pennies (mostly) that look almost flawless, even under magnification. From what I've read and can surmise, modern coins will only hold value if they will grade very high or if they show an interesting error, right? So my questions are mostly to help me decide what to just toss in my purse and what to send in for grading. I've ordered the "Cherrypicker's Guide" but I think that will mostly cover errors, of which there are a few . . .
So, what's a "keeper" from the list below?
1) A modern penny (no special mintage) with a near-flawless surface, bright shiny red, but miniscule dots of that awful black tarnish--only noticeable under magnification
1A) same coin, but a dot or two of green corrosion (um, verdigris!)
2) A modern penny, flawless, but without mint lustre--more of an even, darker-toned, duller(?) finish
3) Any modern coin with no scratches in the fields, but a few on the devices and/or wear that's only visible in certain conditions on the high points of the design (conditions being lighting and angle--I find my halogen works well but hides wear that is visible in normal light!)
3A) same coin but in a (for whatever reason) scarcer population, like nickels w/full steps (this of course from looking at the price guide)
4) Error coins with more noticeable flaws (larger scratches, bigger spots)
My real problem is that I'm a bit "hooked" and have been spending way too much time playing with coins! Some of the pennies are so beautiful that I'll have a hard time parting with them for only 1c, but there are quite a few like that! This (in addition to finding a couple of gorgeous WI quarters in change--not the error kind, but could practically see myself in them) has got me checking all my change and coin stashes in the house. So I need to set some limits . . .
Thanks in advance for your help--I actually had hundreds of questions, most of which have been answered on this forum--such a useful tool and such interesting personalities!!
Kelly
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Comments
Why not buy a Whitman folder and put the best looking cents for each date in it? That could be fun. I'm looking through my change for the finest example of each state quarter and keeping that in a folder. When I find a new one I compare it to the one I already have to see if it might be better.
As to value ordering the Cherry Pickers guide is a great step. I hope you find some! Otherwise it seems unlikely you can find a super grade coin from a bucket. It would need to be perfect with great luster, no abrasions of any kind, well struck, no spots of any kind and so on. Good luck!
First of all you SHOULD NOT BE INTIMIDATED by the number of posts you see for many of the members. Some of them (I'm not naming names) have no life outside of this place and will post 25+ times each day.
Anyway, you're asking some very intelligent questions that indicate you have the makings of a serious collector. The modern coins that you have with spots would likely grade no better than MS64 regardless of being otherwise flawless. However, you should still go to a local bookstore and by a coin album to store them in. If you think you're hooked now, just wait until you try to fill one of these albums.
If the error coins are true "error coins", they will certianly have value regardless of the scratches. Any chance you can image any of them for our evaluation?
An accumulation like this is likely to have a few very desirable coins in it. They will
not be numerous but about one coin in a thousand from several years ago will be
something special. These won't all be worth the cost of encapsulation though. Look
for well struck coins with the tops of the lettering full and rounded. Especially look at
the lettering around the periphery since this is where metal fill is usually last. Coins
should show nice even coloring on the high points meaning they are truly uncirculated
and should be nearly mark free.
It might be a good idea to compare them with some similar coins already slabbed.
Keep anything you like, get rid of anything you don't.
coinpage.com
"Bongo hurtles along the rain soaked highway of life on underinflated bald retread tires."
~Wayne
What you might want to think about is "why" you're interested in collecting. You could, for example, get some Whitman folders and start a set of recent cents, nickels, dimes, etc. Your father's bucket of change would provide an excellent start. (Now, these sets would probably never be worth much more than face value, but they would be fun.)
If, on the other hand, you're interested in identifying the very few very high grade coins in your father's bucket, then you need to become knowledgable about grading modern coins. There are a couple of books you might want to get - for example, I think that NGC put out a book about grading modern coins. A book would give you a head start on finding the very few (if any) MS-68 or better coins in your father's bucket. (Personally, I'm not a collector of high-grade modern coins - I just take new ones as I find them in circulation and put them in my Whitman folders - I understand that most, perhaps all, of the high-grade coins come out of mint sets.) There are folks here who can tell you what modern dates and denominations are uncommen - you might have some AU or MS 1982 quarters, for example.
If you're interested in errors, there are books that can help you identify them, such as the Cherrypicker's guide - don't forget a good magnifying glass, perhaps a 10x or 20x.
You might also want to send PMs to the folks here who specialize in modern coins to ask what to look for and to get an idea of what value your coins might have.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
Generally speaking, correct. Your Lincoln cents are "business strikes," and the high-grade examples will be graded with the initials MS, for "mint state." (Proof strikes would be graded using the "PR" scale.)
but I think that will mostly cover errors, of which there are a few . . .
Retain these, post pictures here, the error experts can advise you.
So, what's a "keeper" from the list below?
1) A modern penny (no special mintage) with a near-flawless surface, bright shiny red, but miniscule dots of that awful black tarnish--only noticeable under magnification
Not sure what the "dots" of black tarnish are, could be carbon spots. Anyway, if you have cents with near-flawless surfaces, I would retain. Very high MS-state examples have value.
1A) same coin, but a dot or two of green corrosion (um, verdigris!)
Value will be impaired. If you can see the corrosion with the naked eye, I probably would not retain the cent.
2) A modern penny, flawless, but without mint lustre--more of an even, darker-toned, duller(?) finish
If it is truly "flawless," retain. But "flawless" means what it says -- you're talking about a pristine coin, no visible defects whatever, even under a 5x loupe. If these cents were stored in a "bucket," the "flawless" specimens will be incredibly rare, and in fact I'd bet very strong money against finding any flawless specimens.
3) Any modern coin with no scratches in the fields, but a few on the devices and/or wear that's only visible in certain conditions on the high points of the design (conditions being lighting and angle--I find my halogen works well but hides wear that is visible in normal light!)
Way too broad a category to answer.
3A) same coin but in a (for whatever reason) scarcer population, like nickels w/full steps (this of course from looking at the price guide)
Again, too broad, as "any modern coin" encompasess so much. Take a 1998 matte Kennedy -- that's a modern coin, and it is worth saving no matter the condition.
As a general matter, save the truly flawless coins. But again, we're talking a very, very small number of coins. As cladking said, one in a thousand -- and even that may be too generous.
4) Error coins with more noticeable flaws (larger scratches, bigger spots)
Retain error coins.
Some of the pennies are so beautiful that I'll have a hard time parting with them for only 1c, but there are quite a few like that! This (in addition to finding a couple of gorgeous WI quarters in change--not the error kind, but could practically see myself in them) has got me checking all my change and coin stashes in the house. So I need to set some limits.
I have a suggestion. You need to view, in person, a couple dozen slabs of MS68 and MS69 modern coinage, preferably in PCGS slabs, especially Lincoln cents, nickels, quarters and halves. And look at these high-grade monsters using a loupe. When you see just how pristine these coins are, their quality is going to jump out at you. You will say to yourself, "how in the hell did this coin make it out of the Mint like this?" Then, compare these high-grade coins with the ones you think are gems. Adjust expectations accordingly.
Just an aside: in years and years of collecting, I have never, ever received an MS67 or MS68 coin in change. Not once, not ever. Once modern coinage finds its way to cash registers, the probability of finding such a coin has got to be real close to zero.
And this is what makes high-grade business strikes fun.
I should have mentioned that I've almost filled three current Whitman folders for pennies (two to give to my siblings). The best example is full except for one of the 1982 flavors (and I have to recheck that I've got copper and zinc ID'd correctly), with 3/4 of the coins brilliant shiny red, but not all without scratches or other unsightliness. I've also 1/2 filled quarters, dimes, nickels, older pennies and quarters, and have a few Kennedys--will check for that 1998! Glad to hear the OK for Whitman folders--my mom has some old ones and the coins are all covered by some kind of a haze, and I was worried that the same would happen. (Of course she keeps hers next to a bathroom--arggh!)
The example below is one of the better ones, with what may be interesting errors. The darkness, blurs and spottiness seem to be factors of the scanner--I've tried dozens of ways to get rid of it, but this coin is blindingly bright "in real life." The only thing I can see by looking at the coin w/a loupe is the slight wear in his shoulder and lapel and a little at the top--probably thanks to my handling, unfortunately--and a couple of those "blisters" from the original metal. On the reverse, there is a die crack at the lower left of the monument, but I see a lot of die cracks in that position on these coins. It's hard to see, but there is also something in the column directly to the right of Mr. Lincoln. (In the scan it looks like a "smiley face" in profile, looking at Lincoln.) Could that be a die break? (I haven't found much info on known errors after 1990.)
I will start a new thread for what I think is an off-metal penny found in my kid's piggy bank(!), 'cause it is so weird. I'm following coppercoins' advice from another thread and going year by year. So far I've mostly just looked closely at '92s, and I think I can see some other errors in varying degrees, that may show die progression--which I think is the most interesting part of all this, to answer someone else's question!
Thanks again for all the info!
(editing: pics disappeared??)
I feel like I don't know what I'm doing either so don't feel intimidated and join the club!!!
coins but should be avoided for uncs and long term storage.
Your off to a fun interesting hobby.
Good Pictures for the first time out.
welcome man. heck, i been hangin' 'round here for months and you're already talkin' circles around me!
Greetings from North Carolina!
Blue skies!
david
-Bochiman
If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you.
-unknown
The die crack on your 1992 cent is not an error. The correct label would be "variety" if I'm not mistaken. From the scan, I'd grade this cent MS67RD.
Aerospace Structures Engineer
Just threw that one out there as an example why it's difficult to provide concrete answers when talking about "any modern."
Thanks to all for the fabulous answers and advice! shamika, your "picture grade" is very encouraging, enough to make me want to send a few off to get an official opinion. But that begs another question--who should grade/attribute? I have read a lot of posts about the reputations of the grading companies, so I have the basic idea. What's not clear is, who's best to register a new die variety if in fact that's what I have? (Thanks for clearing up the error/variety distinction too!) And if I don't intend to sell these right away (still learning), does it make sense to do attribution only, without the grading, to save a few bucks?
. . . no there weren't any of those Kennedys . . . or is it Kennedies?
. . . and I just bought another 100 mylars, so I guess I'll be keeping a few . . .
<< <i>heck, i been hangin' 'round here for months and you're already talkin' circles around me! >>
yeah, talking, just that! Next time I'll try using the terms correctly. Actually, I've been looking at the coins and reading and scouring these boards and other web sites for months . . . I'm just a little shy. My mom's old Whitman folders had some great info too.
Cheers!
I'm partial to PCGS modern business strikes -- the high grade coins are usually pretty good and the grading is fairly consistent. I don't have as much experience with NGC and ANACS, but I will say this, I'm not terribly impressed with some of the older NGC-holdered coins I've seen.
Also, I just sent a bunch of modern stuff to ANACS, so I'm waiting to see if their as bloody tough as everyone says.
If I were you, here's what I'd do. Find a trusted dealer who will submit maybe 3 of your very best coins to PCGS for you, and see how you do. That way, you don't have to immediately spend the Benjamin for a collector's club membership and then even more money on grading fees. Also, don't use economy -- pay for the regular service so you can get them back quickly and see how you do (you don't want to wait the 70+ days w/ economy -- where's the excitement in that?).
I too have over 1000 post and amazingly haven't said a damn thing that I would consider very useful to anyone on these boards
I'm here to learn and in my opinion, for what that's worth, this is THE place on the internet to do that.
enjoy,
Herb