BGS 10...Once rare/non-existent to being commonplace

JackWESQ

2.10.05 6:02 p.m.

I apologize in advance if this topic has already been discussed.

I've been watching BGS graded cards since around 2000. I can't
remember exactly when Beckett started to grade cards, but I think
it was about then. I recall back then how amazed I was that not
only were there no cards graded BGS 10, I couldn't even come
across a card that had a SINGLE SUBGRADE of 10. I thought to
myself, how are we ever going to see a card with minimum subgrades
of 10, 10, 10 and 9.5 to warrant the overall grade of BGS 10.

I was sure that I would at least see a 10 for centering because IN
THEORY once a card is printed, the centering of the card remains intact.
Over time, edges may become worn, corners may become dinged
and surface may deteriorate, but centering should remain constant.
(I won't even get into the topic of trimming.)

But no, still no subgrades of 10. Then all of a sudden, I forgot who it
was, but a 1982 Oneta John Elway baseball card BGS 10 (The description
may be off) appeared on ebay. I believe the seller wanted something
like $50K. I might be off. Crazy. I wonder where that card is now.

Nowadays, you can find a BGS 10 on ebay seemingly regularly. As for
a 10 subgrade, all too common. I'm sure we're all aware that the 1989
Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr. is one of the most heavily graded cards and recently
a BGS 10 was graded. I don't know if I should think that after grading
X thousands of Griffeys, they finally found a BGS 10 or that Beckett realized
that under their old grading standards there would never be a BGS 10.
Even now, I prefer to purchase BGS graded cards that DO NOT have the
subgrades on the front of the slab. Just my thoughts.

I guess one question that I would like to know the answer to is what
percentage of cards graded BGS 10 have been graded as such is the past
year. Would it make you wonder if the distribution went something like
this?

1999 1%
2000 2%
2001 5%
2002 6%
2003 8%
2004 78%

I suppose the only we'll ever know is if someone file a lawsuit against
Beckett pursuant to California Business & Professions Code § 17200.

/s/ JackWESQ

Davino

The card trimmers may be getting better, BGS grades trimmed cards.

EagleEyeKid

BGS grades trimmed cards

Yea, what he said.

Brian48

<< <i>BGS grades trimmed cards

Yea, what he said. >>



One of the dumbest displays of fanboyism yet. And I suppose a trimmed card never got by PSA? You make it sound like it's their policy to find trimmed cards acceptable. As someone who has gotten cards back from BGS as "trimmed", I can say that's absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway, back to the original question, I don't think BGS's standards for a 10 are that hard, especially for a modern card.



<< <i>
Pristine 10

Centering: 50/50 all around on front. 60/40 or better on back.

Corners: Perfect to the naked eye and Mint under magnification.

Edges: Perfect to the naked eye and virtually free of flaws under magnification.

Surface: No print spots. Flawless color, devoid of registration or focus
imperfections. Perfect gloss, devoid of scratches and metallic print lines. >>



Considering how most of the 10's are modern cards, I don't see it impossible for more of them to show up as the years go by.

AndySomnifac

My personal theory as to why we've started to see more 10 subgrades, and BGS 10 final grades is because people are learning what cards to submit in order to get these grades.

For example: the first time you submitted cards for grading (BGS, PSA, SGC, whatever) I'm willing to bet the grades weren't what you expected. However, as time went on and you submitted more cards, you picked up a better eye for it and started submitting your better cards. So, the percentage of better grades you're getting has increased, but does that mean that the grading standards have decreased? No.

Brian48

<< <i>My personal theory as to why we've started to see more 10 subgrades, and BGS 10 final grades is because people are learning what cards to submit in order to get these grades. >>



And the fact that the card companies have been pumping out millions of them for years now certainly helps.

iBuyUsell

JackWESQ,
I wish BGS10s were common.

For the following sets, the number of BGS10s (parenthesis) versus Total cards graded.

1989 Upper Deck: (8) 31962
1990 Leaf: (4) 17952
1992 Bowman: (3) 16089
1993 SP: (0) 8216
1994 SP: (0) 7619
1994 SP Die Cuts: (0) 807
1995 Bowman: (0) 3906
1995 Bowman's Best: (6) 6736
1995 Bowman's Best REFs: (0) 496
1997 Bowman Chrome: (4) 6419
1997 Bowman Chrome REFs: (0) 414
1999 Bowman Chrome: (25) 16229
1999 Bowman Chrome REFs: (1) 1149
1999 Ultimate Victory: (0) 1714
2001 Bowman Chrome: (0) 1765
2002 Bowman Chrome Draft: (5) 2111
2002 Bowman Chrome Draft REFs: (0) 564

1986 Fleer Basketball: (1) 11143
1996-97 Topps Chrome Basketball: (2) 4322
1996-97 Topps Chrome Basketball REFs: (0) 376

1989 Score Football: (3) 12798
1993 SP Football: (0) 2054
1994 SP Football: (0) 4752
1998 SP Authentic Football: (3) 2671

jrdolan

Here's the Conspiracy Theory that I have heard spoken:

Beckett may have decided to change its business model. First the goal was to convince Beckett Nation that BGS 9.5 (and then BGS 10) was considerably better than PSA 10 or SGC 98-100.

Using its price guide and some, shall we say, interesting eBay auctions that it could gush about in its magazine, Beckett was very successful at this marketing plan. "BGS 9.5 (Whoever) Auctions For $4,500!" Often down at the bottom of the blurb you see that the buyer didn't actually pay (gee, really?) and the card was going up on eBay again. But it didn't matter, the big dollars were in the headlines and Beckett Nation was led to believe that a BGS 9.5 (Whoever) was 5 or 10 times more valuable than a PSA 10 (Whoever).

But the strategy may have changed. They may have decided that more money is in volume, that the original idea of BGS 9.5 and 10 being rare and novel has run its course. More is now better, from a business point of view. In the short term, from a revenue perspective, they may be right. But it doesn't bode well for those in Beckett Nation who paid $2,000 for a BGS 10 thinking they could sell it for more someday.

Disclaimer: The above is entirely fiction. Any resemblance to reality in the sportscard market is purely coincidental.

iBuyUsell

jrdolan,
Actually, your Conspiracy Theory sounds like the Comic Grading Industry.
Both BGS & CGC started around the same time, 1999-2000.
CGC has modified their holders (inner well) to BGS style (from PSA style).
Both Grading companys have been accused of lowering their grading standards.
And... both grading companys are successful!

kingraider75

Grading cards and then putting out a price guide for them is a bit dishonest.

AndySomnifac

<< <i>Grading cards and then putting out a price guide for them is a bit dishonest. >>



Well, both Beckett and PSA do it. I would agree that it does strike me at best as a conflict of interest.

kingraider75

yeah I know that both of them do it. I blame beckett, they are the industry standard for prices( although I know ebay seems to be the real price) but anyways it seems a little bit sleazy. Does GAI have a price guide? I don't like their holders too much though. Not as distinctive as PSA.

DaBigHurt

There is no proof whatsoever that PSA has ever graded a trimmed card. What we do know is that BGS, SGC, GAI and company all have graded trimmed cards and were caught redhanded. PSA is the most consistent grader in the industry and have the best trained graders around. The time they spend scrutinizing each and every card puts them head and shoulders above the rest. While you'll be lucky to get other companies to spend 15 seconds at a time grading your card, PSA spends upwards of 4-5 minutes per card. THAT is why they catch the trimmers and the others don't.

NickM

Most of the BGS 10 cards we see are borderless or otherwise make centering nearly impossible to determine by anything more scientific than eye appeal.

Nick

Allen

I heard the PSA was raising their scale to go to 11. So soon you will have PSA 11 PRISTINE...EVEN MORE PRISTINE THAN BGS 10

goudeygold

I think alot of it is simply that "modern" cards are being manufactured with greater and greater precision. With the per pack price they charge they should be near perfect or perfect. But again, save the Pristine 10s for headlines and buy a 9.5 for 1/2 the price. Odds are the actual difference is not noticeable, even under a scope. I personally think good ol politics probably come into play for the 10/10/10/9.5 cards anyway.

Also, if PSA has graded 7,000,000 cards, common sense will tell you that some are flawed/trimmed/recolored or whatever. I also think PSA is the best for resale so I will continue to give them my business for that simple reason.

GG