Would you favor PSA going to "sub-grading" technique?
Steve1124
Posts: 198 ✭
Having read several threads, i've noted that many do not like the "qualifiers" used by PSA. Also, i'm sure ALL of us have submitted cards, gotten them back and wondered "Why did this card get an '8' instead of a '9' " -- (or other numbers, you see the point). If PSA were to use the sub-grading technique this would address BOTH these issues. Other companies have used this technique, and generally have the sub-grades on a label on the BACK of the holder. Most use 4 sub-categories: centering, corners, surface, and edges. I'd like to see a 5th: clarity, or focus. On many of the vintage cards especially, the focus is blurred or out of whack. A formula is then used to come up with the final grade. Generally, the final grade is no higher than one number above the lowest sub-grade. This would take the "guess work" out of how a card got the grade it did, and eliminate the need for qualifiers. Alternatively, maybe the submitter could have the OPTION of having the card graded this way.
Your thoughts?
Your thoughts?
0
Comments
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
on post 1980 cards, why not!
but I've never been wrong
it seldom turns out the way
it does in the song
once in a while
you get shown the light
in the strangest of places
if you look at it right
What would be even better would be grader's notes. When you get comics graded by CGC, you can call in and ask for notes regarding a specific book and they can tell you what they marked off for.
2005 Origins Old Judge Brown #/20 and Black 1/1s, 2000 Ultimate Victory Gold #/25
2004 UD Legends Bake McBride autos & parallels, and 1974 Topps #601 PSA 9
Rare Grady Sizemore parallels, printing plates, autographs
Nothing on ebay
I don't think the subgrades are necessary...if a card gets an 8, you know why it got an 8.
GG
Sub-grades are just a marketing tool Beckett dreamed up.
I would like to see Beckett start using the following qualifiers :
SC - for cards recently cut from a sheet
TM - for oversized cards that were recently trimmed down
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
This would pre-empt the unsavory contact with customer service trying to find out why one got the 5 on a card they were expecting a 7 e.g.
The submitter can access this information with the grades on-line. It would not take long to do this and would be a tremendous customer service satisfier.
Just a thought
your friend
Mike
"My dad wanted me to be a baseball player."
I know I was surprised (and shocked) at how poorly I had pregraded them. But taking some more time, giving them a second and third over, I am now much more comfortable with the results.
Keep it simple.
Ranger63 had a good point, though. It does open the door for more mechanical errors, and we already see plenty of those. (I've always wondered why they're called "mechanical" errors. The clerk types in John Hadl, but the machine somehow prints Jacque MacKinnon?)
And while we're on the topic of nice features of other company's holders, how a label like GAI's that shows the card info on the top edge of the holder? That would make it oh-so-much easier to find the card I'm looking for.
<< <i>I'd be willing to bet that those who are veterans of submitting cards to PSA know exactly what their cards are going to grade before they get the results. >>
Well, you'd think so, but it's not true for me. One time I'll submit a stack of cards expecting mostly 8's with a few 9's, and I'll get exactly that. The next time I'll submit another stack expecting the same thing, and I'll get mostly 8's with a few 7's--a huge difference. When that happens, I'd love to know what the graders saw that I didn't. Subgrades would certainly help.
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
<< <i>More information would be a good thing - in the form of online notes possibly...but, how in the world could this be implemented without adding weeks to turnaround time (and adding to grading costs also)? The BGS subgrade business is, as mentioned earlier, just a marketing gimmick - a simple single grade is perfect, but some explanation of how the card got there would be a good thing if it could be done reasonably. >>
ct
I posted the on-line approach above. It's a matter of how they grade the cards - if they view the card w/o any kind of a check list, then the process is weak - if the cards were logged in - that info could go to individual check lists that the grader uses to review and derive a score on the card - the computer would automatically average the grades based on surface, centering, corners etc. and provide a final grade - this could be obtained on-line by the submitter - if a card were rejected due to trimming, recoloring etc. - that would be on the on-line check list.
I don't think this would be any more time consuming, I use something like it everyday in my work.
your friend
Mike
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Subgrades/notes anything would be a waste of the graders time....as I posted, if it's an 8, you know why it got an 8.
If you want subgrades or .5 scores, there are plenty of other options available to you.
As for PSA....I don't think there is a chance in h@ll they will put subgrades. Since PSA was the first to grade I think they feel it's not necessary to change. Why mess around with something that's been working for so long? If they were to put subgrades it would only make Beckett look better because they were the first to throw the subgrades on there. Just imagine how many people would be saying..."Look PSA now puts subs on their cards because BGS is selling better...etc"
Subgrades do work and solve a lot of issues on the mystery of many graded cards. How else can you tell if there is something wrong with a surface or if a card is a "High end" card that could go for resubmission.
PSA should introduce subs on modern cards and see how well it is accepted. If it does well then offer options for people to send in their old cards to get subgrades on them. More money for PSA and finally solving all those issues with dealers thinking all their cards are high end and can bump up everytime....
"PSA rated this an 8, but it should have definitely scored an 8.5!"
As far as subs, what constitutes a grade is readily available from PSA, and subgrading would only make the process of getting cards graded that much slower.
I like PSA grading the way it is.
I disagree with you on this point Axtell. Having access to graders notes upon request would help explain why I card that looks like an 8 got a 7. Over the last 6 months I have accumulated a stack of 20-30 PSA 7 cards that I bought 8's to upgrade my sets. When I compared the 7 to the 8, the 7 was a better card by far. If I had access to the grader notes I would know why the PSA 7 card didn't get the grade it deserved.
Graders notes and subgrades on slabs are 2 different subjects, but having access to graders notes would help explain why I card received a lesser (or greater) grade.
Then all we'd be doing is complaining more about how long it takes cards to get back from PSA, about how you don't agree with this particular grader's notes, etc. etc.
It opens a huge can of worms that is better off being kept closed.
Just give us a consistent application of the existing 10-point scale. Let the market/individual collectors handle the rest.
Not long at all. You don't have to put all the reasons a card got a certain grade, just the reason why he didn't grade higher.
Example: Card grades a 7. Graders note: Lower left and lower right corners were soft enough to prevent an 8.
There, it took me less than 10 seconds to type. The grader is already doing this in his mind when he looks at a card. Just put it on paper and access it only if there is a question about a grade. Heck, PSA could even charge a fee ($1 per view) to look at the graders notes.
No need to change the holder or the 10 pt system. Just another way to add value to your PSA card and maybe even another income stream for PSA.
Multiply that say, by 100 (typical bulk submission)....
Now the extra costs for coding that to the website...
The extra cost in printing it out either on the flip or another sheet of paper...
It just begins to spiral in both time and expense.
I know there's no convincing you the notes wouldn't be feasible, but if you know a card has a soft corner, or some slight edge whitening, you know why that card is coming back a 7 instead of an 8.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>I would like longer prison sentences for repeat offenders and World Peace!
I would like shorter prison sentences for repeat offenders and Total Anarchy!
Let me be clear.
#1 I'm against PSA using sub-grades on the slabs.
#2 PSA is the #1 grader and I use them by far over my other choice for grading (SGC)
#3 Give us access to graders notes and if necessary charge a fee for this service. The only time this would be accessed is when there is a question on a grade. If I agree with a grade, I wouldn't ask for or pay for, the privilege of seeing the graders notes.
#4 Any extra cost would be absorbed by the "graders notes access fee"
#5 You wouldn't need graders notes for every card. 10's would not be challenged. Any other notations can be made into a recorder and not written down. Ex "Invoice #123456, Line item #12 1948 Bowman Joe Tereshinski card #1 Grades PSA 7 due to weak lower right corner and chipping along left and upper edge. centering on back of card did not meet qualifications for pSA 8" Now if someone questions this grade they can print out the recording and email the explanation to the card owner.
#6 CGC offers review of the graders notes for free for its comic grading. This is one of the reasons that CGC has virtually no competition in the comic grading market. PSA was once like this, but innovation and competition have begun to eat away it's market share. A simple change in policy would help PSA without having to compromise the grading system or their slabs.
Again, no PSA bashing here. Sometimes slight adjustments in company policy can produce tremendous value rather than making any extreme changes.
Good points and I agree that many times someone doesn't carefully read someones post.
I agree that a simple report would not be expensive. When a card gets logged into the computer it could have a built in form:
e.g. 1957 Topps #95 Mantle - and then all pertinent check list data would follow
The grader would just scroll down and make their entry - it would save them time since all the subscores would be tallied for them and provide them with the final grade.
If something stops them - like on the "surface" subgrade - they find a recolored area - they just check recolored/althered - and if they choose - a quick "note".
This would not take long and would actually help them to move along in a simple, logical, ordered manner.
Just my take
your friend
Mike
PS: I would like to see longer prison sentences for repeat offenders and World Peace!