Are coins somehow tainted if they have been returned to your dealer by someone who had a shot before
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
How affected are you, if at all, by knowing that a coin you are considering for purchase has just been returned to your dealer by someone who had a shot at it before you did?
This comes up from time to time in conversations I have with clients - they want to know why, if the coin is such a good one, was it just returned ????
There are many reasons that even a great coin is returned to a dealer by his client :
1) The client viewed a number of coins at once and there was no way he could/would keep them all.
2) The client didn't like the coin only because of his own specific preferences/standards which had nothing to do with the quality of the coin (for example, perhaps it had a bit of toning and he collects only color-free coins).
3) The coin was too expensive or priced too high - two different things
4) The client wasn't familiar with what that particular type and grade of coin should look like.
5) The client already had that type of coin, but was looking for an upgrade which didn't materialize.
6) Other - sometimes neither the dealer nor the client knows why the coin was returned.
So, fess up, are newly-returned coins somehow tainted or potentially less desirable to you?
Edited to add: This is not in any way a rant or complaint - in fact, the last time this situation arose, my client really liked and bought the coin which had been returned prior to his buying it. More on that and/or other similar occurrences later, perhaps....
This comes up from time to time in conversations I have with clients - they want to know why, if the coin is such a good one, was it just returned ????
There are many reasons that even a great coin is returned to a dealer by his client :
1) The client viewed a number of coins at once and there was no way he could/would keep them all.
2) The client didn't like the coin only because of his own specific preferences/standards which had nothing to do with the quality of the coin (for example, perhaps it had a bit of toning and he collects only color-free coins).
3) The coin was too expensive or priced too high - two different things
4) The client wasn't familiar with what that particular type and grade of coin should look like.
5) The client already had that type of coin, but was looking for an upgrade which didn't materialize.
6) Other - sometimes neither the dealer nor the client knows why the coin was returned.
So, fess up, are newly-returned coins somehow tainted or potentially less desirable to you?
Edited to add: This is not in any way a rant or complaint - in fact, the last time this situation arose, my client really liked and bought the coin which had been returned prior to his buying it. More on that and/or other similar occurrences later, perhaps....
0
Comments
al h.
That wouldn't bother me. I figure all coins were owned by someone else and sold off at another time anyway!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Greg Hansen, Melbourne, FL Click here for any current EBAY auctions Multiple "Circle of Trust" transactions over 14 years on forum
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
If someone else has looked at the coin, I guess I will pass from now on.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
I wouldnt ask a dealer to send a coin if I didnt think I could afford it.
I have also payed close to retail, retail, and above retail for certain coins.
My reasoning is that if you are working on a specialty series, you really have to beat the bushes to find a coin worthy of your collection. That can get costly if your picky. Aside from the "having Fun" aspect of attending a coin show as a collector, the last major coin show I went to , I went specifically to find nicely toned Franklins. I spent 30.00 bucks on Gas, 75.00 on food, 110.00 on a room, and probably another 50.00 on misc.
I found one really nice franklin in 65FBL for 50.00.
That 50.00 coin really cost me $315.00. Now that I have a family, that is a waste of money.
Motto: Know what your collecting. Find a great dealer, and have fun.
I agree.
Doesn't bother me. As long as the coin fits into my collection and my criteria.
I agree.
I have only had one instance where a coin I called about was already on approval and the first buyer passed, and I had it sent to me. This situation was different, becuase I knew the dealer very well and he informed me that the first buyer was sticker shocked at the price, and probably would not take it at that level, and wanted to negotiate the price down. The coin turned out to be very nice, and a good buy in the long run.
jim
<< <i>Doesn't bother me. As long as the coin fits into my collection and my criteria. >>
In one case however I purchased a coin from a major retailer after the first buyer passed. In this case I had seen the coin at a major show before it was brought home by the dealer as a newp. And I did think about buying it but was on the fence. When the next potential buyer passed on the coin because he unknowingly felt it was AT, I jumped back in. I guess I was sucked back in because the web listed price was $1000 higher than what I was quoted. Still have that coin and like it a lot. It's definitely not AT.
roadrunner
Billy
Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."
It sort of slipped the dealer's mind that those had been sold before and returned because they were bodybagged at PCGS. Now they've been bodybagged twice.
Russ, NCNE
in general the best coins the great ones the killers monsters are the ones usually returned by the clients as they are price buyers or do not know or understand what they are looking at
some of the greatest coins and purchases i have seen fellow collectors/dealers make is when they were second or third in line
if i know of a dealer that i have respect for and he has a coin that i know is good but have not seen it as yet andhas been returned once or twice this is a coin i usually want to see and have more interest in
this is why front page dealer ads in the coin rags are so successful you send out crap junque overgraded problem cleaned coins to buyers and they love you for it and they want more and more..........you send them for example correctly graded original walkers in nice ms and they call and say you sent them crap
It's one of the reasons that many buyers don't even want to bother to look if they know the coins have been offered (or shopped) to a number of other buyers. While it never hurts to look, you can spend your entire day looking at worthless stuff you can't possibly buy or have interest in while the one good deals walks past you because you are busy checking out box after box of tired coins.
I was very surprised to see an old friend on ebay today. It was a fairly expensive seated dime that I had bought at the FUN 2002 show. After having more than one dealer question the toning on this major league slabbed coin I decided to move it. After a year of no luck it finally sold to a top retailer at the 2003 FUN show. I was lucky to make 15% on it (rather than break even or lose). It showed up in two of the 2004 auctions looking for a score. It didn't sell. It appeared back at FUN 2005 for the same price I had paid for it in 2002! It has since wholesaled twice in the past month. This has been a newp now at least 3 times in the past year....and soon to be coming to a dealer near you....as a fresh newp.
I also find that this "newp" thing has take on new meaning. Now coins, once truly offered as fresh, are sent to the grading services or just removed from advertiser's lists after languishing in inventories for weeks or months. Or they are sent out to auctions to see if they can dump....I mean "sell" them. When they ultimately come back unsold or reholdered, lo and behold, a fresh "newp!" Come and get it boys and gals.
roadrunner
Mike
Every one of my coins has been previously owned (at least once by the Mint).
There are as many reasons a coin can be returned that have more to do with that persons situation - which can range from tastes, economic issues, or they just plain changed their mind.
I asked about a coin on a dealers website and was told it was sold. A couple weeks later I get an email saying it is now available - and it did make it less desirable to me because as Al said as reason #7 - wondering if there is a problem with it once you see it in person, so I passed on it
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
roadrunner
I have bought two monsters that Collector A passed on becuase he thought they were too rich. I didn't, so I bought. In both cases I have encountered the same scenario as au58 described.
Perhaps a better question to pose to the forum is 'If you pass on a coin, and the next guy in-line snaps it up, do you automatically assume you made a terrible mistake, lie awake at night and eventually chase the buyer down and offer him his outlay + 10(or 20 or 30)%'?
<< <i>For the life of me, I can't understand why a salesman would say "Hey, ya want this coin? Joe Schmuck turned it down." >>
Mike, I agree. However, a much more likely and realistic scenario would be...
A dealer has a brand new acquisition/coin on their website...
A client orders it (on approval basis or otherwise)...
Before the client has decided on the coin, another client inquires about it....
The dealer says "It's out on approval (or on hold) at this time, I'd be happy to let you know if it doesn't sell"...
The first client returns the coin....
The dealer contacts the second client and offers the coin to him.
You'd be surprised how often this happens. And, it doesn't mean that the coin isn't wonderful or that more than 1 person has passed on it before client #2 gets a shot at it.
KJ
<< <i> There are coins at Pinnacle out right now and I strongly hope whoever is looking at them says "no" and sends them back to the office so I can buy them! It doesn't matter to me that they've said "no," if I like the coin and feel the price is ok. I will usually feel I'm lucky their deal didn't go through >>
Who cares what someone else thinks about a coin or what their reason was for returning it. As long as you're comfortable with and like the coin I say go for it. What if the other guy returned the coin because he's an idiot and didn't know what he was looking at?
I have on occassion ordered several coins with the idea that for budget reasons, I might keep one and return one. I have returned some great coins that way, just because I couldn't afford both. Dealers are often willing to send out a group to good customers with the ideal that they will choose a subset.
So, who knows why a customer is returning a coin. I only deal with dealers who will fairly describe the negatives as well as the positives of a coin anyway.
Sometimes I don't even agree with the dealer appraisal. Once Pinnacle gave me a negative review of an MS65 Liberty 5c from their inventory that I was considering. I liked the image and ordered it anyway. The coin came, and it was the best I had ever seen for the date in any grade. It did have original toning which I like, but which was not then in favor amongst the blast white set. The coin later upgraded to MS66 and is still the best I have ever seen. It could certainly have been possible that the coin could have been returned by someone seeking a white piece.
Greg
This brings up a problem I have with a coin right now and hopefully, the board members can help me with proper conduct for a customer. I do value my relationship with this dealer but I find myself embarassed because I bought a coin with a scratch because it had been a hard date for me to get in my pocket. It is not a cheap coin. I check in with the dealer every couple of weeks to see if he has any of my series and usually he doesn't and when he does, they are gone in a matter of days so if you don't jump on it you are pretty much outta luck. So, I go to the store, he has this coin and I buy it. Now I find I can't live with the scratch, it is a problem coin for my collection. Also, I feel the coin has been reholdered into pcgs blue from a lower ngc holder. The coin will hold the grade but with the scratch (not noted on the holder) it certainly begs the question "Is this a good coin for the grade?" I just don't feel good about having that coin in my collection. I would rather have a lesser coin that has no problems than a higher coin that has a problem, mainly because I can't possibly recover my expense with this scratch on it at that grade and I can hear it now..."This coin has a scratch!".
I need to give the coin back to the dealer without damaging my status as a good customer. I have returned a coin before to him but only one and it was self-admittedly my mistake. Now, after a few transactions with this dealer (8 or so), I am back again with a coin I want to return. If I get a reputation for this kind of behavior, I know I will be demoted to the "B" list of clients and I won't be seeing any top of the line for the grade coins from him for a while and then I think I will be banned to the auction sites for future acquisitions.
Is there some way to get out of this situation without being demoted or is it time to just give the coin back and find another source for my acquisitions?
<< <i>Also, I feel the coin has been reholdered into pcgs blue from a lower ngc holder >>
Though this is a completely separate issue, I'm curious as to what you base this feeling upon?
Re: the reholdering...it is a ms 62 coin in a 62 holder but with that scratch, it can't hold the grade in my opinion therefore I question the holder.
Thanks again!
My experience:
1. If a coin has a defect that bothers you a little now, it will bother you a lot more as time goes on. If you ever have to say to yourself, "It's not so bad," it probably is and you shound not buy the coin. What is bothersome to you will not necessarily be aggravating to someone and else and vice versa. I think you learned the lesson on this point.
2. Go back to the dealer. Keep the coin until this dealer has something in inventory that you would like and offer it back on the trade. You might be able to get 90-100% back of your purchase price, especially if you are buying a more expensive item. Another alternative is to contact the dealer and say, "I no longer like this coin. What do you recommend I do?". He/she might offer to repurchase it (do not haggle on the price, just take what is offered), sell it on consignment, put it in an auction, etc. If the dealer has something in inventory that's been there a while that you like, he might be more than happy to take something fresher back on trade (win-win). There are lots of possible happy endings to your story, but if you go back to the dealer, let the dealer dictate the terms. (That's what I do.)
<< <i> Is 10% a good number or should I wait for him to offer the deal? >>
Without knowing the coin, the cost and how long ago the transaction took place, that sounds like a very fair number.
If you really believe the coin is overgraded, send it back to PCGS under their guaranteed regrade program. If they agree that it is overgraded, they will reholder it in the correct holder and reimburse you for the value difference. I have done that with 1/2 dozen coins over a few years, and it is never a problem. That way you can avoid the problem of going back to the dealer, and you keep the coin from being sold in the wrong holder to another client.
Greg
Mike