Message board policy, the truth, and WIWAG
homerunhall
Posts: 2,496 ✭✭✭
Hello everybody,
I'd like to explain the Collectors Universe (PSA, PSA/DNA, PCGS, PSE) policy with regards to the message boards, bashing, censorship, etc.
We basically prefer an open forum where collectors and dealers can discuss any issue of interest, help one another, and learn from one another. We prefer not to censor the message boards. To that end, we allow negative comments about our company and in fact read them as a way of having customer feedback and gaining ideas about how to improve our services. There are two areas where the message board posts can cross the line and cause us to ban members and/or censor the posts. First, if the negative comments are mean spirited, obviously slanted, and seem to be the continual work of someone with a bashing agenda...we'll take action. Second, if someone flat out lies about our company...we'll take action.
There has recently been a good deal of discussion about WIWAG, Real Legends, switched cards, etc. on the PSA message boards. And there are a few board members who have been flat out lying about things. Here are some specific examples...
One board member posted the following statement re the Real Legends lawsuit, "PSA tried to get the court transcripts sealed. Judge denied request because PSA is a publically traded company." This statement is a total lie...pure fantasy. We did not ask for sealed transcripts and in fact wanted everything to remain open to the public. This is all a matter of public record. This person is making stuff up...he must have an agenda that has nothing to do with the truth. This board member is outta here.
Another board member stated something to the effect that they had heard from reliable dealer sources that PSA had sold WIWAG 250,000 holders. Besides the fact that we would have no earthly reason to do this and every reason in the world not to do it, the fact is this didn't happen. We never sold WIWAG any holders. This is a complete fabrication. This board member is outta here.
Another board member stated that "Joe Orlando said they did not have a sealing machine under oath." You can read the court transcripts and see that this statement is not true. At his deposition, Joe did say that he didn't know if we had picked up a sealing machine from WIWAG. In court, Joe said that he had subsequently learned that Charlie Kahler had indeed picked up a sealing machine from WIWAG. This was part of our settlement agreement with them. The statement that Joe said they did not have a sealing machine is not true and the statement that Joe Orlando lied under oath is not acceptable here. You can't call Joe Orlando a liar on our message boards (unless you can prove it to me that he is.) This guy is outta here.
The question is why would a person fabricate things about PSA? It seems to me that there's a high probability that these people have a hidden PSA bashing agenda. I don't know much about these people, but I do know that of the worst offenders, two have never submitted a card to PSA (though they claim they have), and one has only submitted 6 Collectors Club freebies. And I know that one member joined the boards in November and one joined in December. These people aren't here to discuss card collecting and help you, they are on the boards to bash PSA. They are no longer welcome and they have been booted from the boards.
We provide the message boards as a free service to you. We hope you enjoy them. Feel free to discuss whatever you want. And feel free to make any comment about our companies...positive or negative. Just don't make up lies about our company.
As for WIWAG...we've released information long ago. And we had a restitution policy in place. There are some things we know and some things we don't know. We can tell you that the value of the cards presented under the terms of the restitution program totalled about $80,000. The cards were virtually all high grade modern cards and not high dollar vintage items. For example, the infamous Bonzi Wells card that was used as evidence in the case was a $40 or $50 card. Our suspicion is that WIWAG focused on lower dollar cards that would 1) stay "under the radar, and 2) that they could resubmitt over and over again (to get usable inserts.)
Bottom line is that we stand behind our product and if you have any PSA card that you feel is suspicious, just send it to us and we'll check it out for you.
Have fun with your cards.
David Hall
President Collectors Universe
Founder PSA
I'd like to explain the Collectors Universe (PSA, PSA/DNA, PCGS, PSE) policy with regards to the message boards, bashing, censorship, etc.
We basically prefer an open forum where collectors and dealers can discuss any issue of interest, help one another, and learn from one another. We prefer not to censor the message boards. To that end, we allow negative comments about our company and in fact read them as a way of having customer feedback and gaining ideas about how to improve our services. There are two areas where the message board posts can cross the line and cause us to ban members and/or censor the posts. First, if the negative comments are mean spirited, obviously slanted, and seem to be the continual work of someone with a bashing agenda...we'll take action. Second, if someone flat out lies about our company...we'll take action.
There has recently been a good deal of discussion about WIWAG, Real Legends, switched cards, etc. on the PSA message boards. And there are a few board members who have been flat out lying about things. Here are some specific examples...
One board member posted the following statement re the Real Legends lawsuit, "PSA tried to get the court transcripts sealed. Judge denied request because PSA is a publically traded company." This statement is a total lie...pure fantasy. We did not ask for sealed transcripts and in fact wanted everything to remain open to the public. This is all a matter of public record. This person is making stuff up...he must have an agenda that has nothing to do with the truth. This board member is outta here.
Another board member stated something to the effect that they had heard from reliable dealer sources that PSA had sold WIWAG 250,000 holders. Besides the fact that we would have no earthly reason to do this and every reason in the world not to do it, the fact is this didn't happen. We never sold WIWAG any holders. This is a complete fabrication. This board member is outta here.
Another board member stated that "Joe Orlando said they did not have a sealing machine under oath." You can read the court transcripts and see that this statement is not true. At his deposition, Joe did say that he didn't know if we had picked up a sealing machine from WIWAG. In court, Joe said that he had subsequently learned that Charlie Kahler had indeed picked up a sealing machine from WIWAG. This was part of our settlement agreement with them. The statement that Joe said they did not have a sealing machine is not true and the statement that Joe Orlando lied under oath is not acceptable here. You can't call Joe Orlando a liar on our message boards (unless you can prove it to me that he is.) This guy is outta here.
The question is why would a person fabricate things about PSA? It seems to me that there's a high probability that these people have a hidden PSA bashing agenda. I don't know much about these people, but I do know that of the worst offenders, two have never submitted a card to PSA (though they claim they have), and one has only submitted 6 Collectors Club freebies. And I know that one member joined the boards in November and one joined in December. These people aren't here to discuss card collecting and help you, they are on the boards to bash PSA. They are no longer welcome and they have been booted from the boards.
We provide the message boards as a free service to you. We hope you enjoy them. Feel free to discuss whatever you want. And feel free to make any comment about our companies...positive or negative. Just don't make up lies about our company.
As for WIWAG...we've released information long ago. And we had a restitution policy in place. There are some things we know and some things we don't know. We can tell you that the value of the cards presented under the terms of the restitution program totalled about $80,000. The cards were virtually all high grade modern cards and not high dollar vintage items. For example, the infamous Bonzi Wells card that was used as evidence in the case was a $40 or $50 card. Our suspicion is that WIWAG focused on lower dollar cards that would 1) stay "under the radar, and 2) that they could resubmitt over and over again (to get usable inserts.)
Bottom line is that we stand behind our product and if you have any PSA card that you feel is suspicious, just send it to us and we'll check it out for you.
Have fun with your cards.
David Hall
President Collectors Universe
Founder PSA
0
This discussion has been closed.