Does ebay allow a seller to withhold sending a refund until the buyer leaves positive feedback? Prob

fivecents · February 1, 2005 11:36AM

This has happened to me and I am pissed off about it. I bought a coin that was misrepresented on ebay. The seller agreed to take the coin back minus almost a 25% restocking fee. The seller has now received the returned coin and emailed me that he has left positive feedback and I am to do the same or he will return the coin back to me instead of my refund. Basically he is holding my refund hostage for positive feed back. Can I report him to ebay? What would you do in this situation? Thanks for your opinions.

xbob · February 1, 2005 11:40AM

That's ridiculous! There is no way eBay considers it acceptable, but who knows what they would do about it.

If you didn't spend a lot of money, neg him anyway and report him. Otherwise, leave the positive just to get your money, then do a follow-up feedback about the "ransom" and still report him. Save the "e-ransom note" to forward to eBay also (and paypal if used).

I hope you get justice!

XpipedreamR · February 1, 2005 11:41AM

For starters, you should post the auction so we all know who to avoid.

coinguy1 · February 1, 2005 11:44AM

Paul, report the seller to Ebay and include a copy of the correspondence in which he is trying to hold you hostage.

fivecents · February 1, 2005 11:45AM

Xpipe... I'm not posting squat until I resolve this.
I need to know if I have any teeth in this matter. The coin was around fifty dolars and was PCGS certified. I have NEVER had anything like this happen before.

fivecents · February 1, 2005 11:47AM

The seller agreed via email to send me a refund. He also E-ransomed me via email.

Russ · February 1, 2005 11:49AM

Report him immediately. Feedback extortion is a NARU offense. And, OUT HIM.

Russ, NCNE

fivecents · February 1, 2005 11:51AM

Russ...In doing so do I also loose any chance of receiving my refund?

Russ · February 1, 2005 11:54AM

<< In doing so do I also loose any chance of receiving my refund? >>

Did you pay by PayPal? If so, and it's been less than 45 days, you can file a claim and get your money back. If you paid by other means, you probably wouldn't get your money back if he gets NARUed. It's pretty obvious he's a slimeball without honor.

Russ, NCNE

fivecents · February 1, 2005 11:58AM

I paid with check. So this @&$@*^$#!! wins the feedback hostage game. I am not about to loose my hard earned money because ebay has no real teeth to deal with this matter.

Russ · February 1, 2005 12:03PM

That's up to you, but if it were my $50 I'd eat it, report the slimeball to eBay and out him here. To me it would be worth the money for the satisfaction of getting him kicked and knowing people were made aware and would avoid him.

Russ, NCNE

ziggy29 · February 1, 2005 12:06PM

<< I paid with check. So this @&$@*^$#!! wins the feedback hostage game. I am not about to loose my hard earned money because ebay has no real teeth to deal with this matter. >>

Whatever other flaws PayPal has, if any legitimate sellers wonder why some buyers will only pay by PayPal and won't bid on items from sellers who don't offer it, here's a good example of why.

At minimum, I hope you'll reveal this slimebag after you get your refund. Assuming this is as you claim, of course.

fivecents · February 1, 2005 12:09PM

Russ...Nope. I am not about to loose my $50....well $40 after the $10 restocking fee. Sometimes you have to cut your losses. Ebay should have better protection for the buyers in this situation.

fivecents · February 1, 2005 12:12PM

<< Assuming this is as you claim, of course. >>

Damn Ziggy...If you think I am a lying...keep your big nose out of this thread.

dbldie55 · February 1, 2005 12:15PM

I would leave a positive feedback since a 20% restocking fee and not giving a refund are such positive experiences.

I would certainly hope you would report him to ebay so he/she cannot do it to the next person.

coinguy1 · February 1, 2005 12:16PM

Paul, if you're afraid of the guy getting Naru'd and your not getting your refund if you report him, at least try to scare him into sending your refund to you (without your having to leave positive feedback first).

I doubt he wants to get Naru'd, so use that against him and tell him you have no obligation to leave any type of feedback and that if you don't receive a quick refund you will report him to Ebay.

fivecents · February 1, 2005 12:26PM

Thanks coinguy1, Xbob and russ for the positive input.

coinguy1....I will try to give him a scare by threating him being Naru'd.

Bochiman · February 1, 2005 12:40PM

CoinGuy1 and Russ have given good advice.
Tell the guy you are going to report him to ebay unless he sends your refund, and that he is practicing feedback extortion & it isn't appreciated.

Also, if that were MY money, even if I paid by check, if I was not getting my refund, I would contact the local police and ask them for assistance.
You sent money, you returned the goods, you deserve your money back. Otherwise, he is keeping it.

You may not like hearing this, but if you give him positive feedback after being extorted, then you may as well not even have posted.
$40, in the scheme of things, is not that much. You haven't even mentioned the seller's ID on ebay nor the coin nor the problem. If you are going to come on here, give your input about being screwed (1-sided so far....whether you want to hear that comment or not), then at least ID the seller and the full issue.

Bochiman · February 1, 2005 12:42PM

btw.....if you allow this guy to extort the positive feedback from you, your title is all wrong.
it would better read as YOU allowing the seller to withhold sending a refund until YOU leave positive feedback

K6AZ · February 1, 2005 12:51PM

First, this guy is a slimeball. If I were in this position, I would tell him to send my money back or face being reported for mail fraud.

Second, this does not qualify under the feedback extortion policy at eBay. Feedback extortion can only occur where a user tells another user to take a specific action or they will leave negative feedback. In this case, the seller is stating he will not refund the money until feedback is given. This scenario has been discussed many times on the eBay boards, and eBay does not consider this to be feedback extortion. It should though.

relayer · February 1, 2005 1:30PM

Sounds like a jwcameo experience

fivecents · February 1, 2005 7:59PM

Eric....Does it make any difference that he is demanding POSITIVE feedback oppossed to just feedback?

I emailed him with the threat of being naru'd if I don't receive a prompt refund. I have yet to receive a response.

fivecents · February 1, 2005 8:02PM

<< Sounds like a jwcameo experience >>

Watch it Deep Cameo Boy.

darktone · February 1, 2005 8:14PM

Tell you what- if you report this to ebay and get him NARU'ed and don't get a refund I'll cover $10 of your loss and I bet a few others here would do the same to get rid of this scum. mike

fivecents · February 1, 2005 8:33PM

Mike...That is a very generous offer. Thank you very much, but I couldn't accept it. It's just that I work real hard for my money and I am not willing to just hand it over to a scumbag ebay seller. It seems like everyone feels that I am obligated to lose my $40 even though I have done nothing wrong. Hell Ziggy even posted that I might be lying about the facts. I blame ebay for not having a policy to handle this matter.

tlhoy · February 1, 2005 8:35PM

I sent eBay a complaint about "2centsin" return policy (below) and eBay said it did NOT violate eBay's feedback policy!
Please note # 3

1) No complaints: Winners who are not satisfied with the transaction are barred from filing a complaint before, during or after requesting a refund. Should a complaint be filed before during or after requesting a refund 2centsin shall regard this act as a breach of trust that is an integral part of the guarantee we offer.

2) No negative feedback: a negative feedback shall sever any and all business relationship with the person leaving said feedback. In the event that said business relationship ceases to exist any and all guarantees that are inherent in that relationship will be considered a moot point. Therefore, a person who leaves a negative must do so with the knowledge that it will nullify any guarantees from 2centsin

3) Positive feedback: must be given upon agreement that the items shall be accepted for return and a full refund will be made. In no event shall funds be remitted prior to the posting of a positive feedback

fivecents · February 1, 2005 8:43PM

<< 3) Positive feedback: must be given upon agreement that the items shall be accepted for return and a full refund will be made. In no event shall funds be remitted prior to the posting of a positive feedback >>

tlhoy..So if I leave positive feedback, the seller doesn't have to refund my money? This darn lawyer talk is a little hard to understand.

darktone · February 1, 2005 9:09PM

<< Mike...That is a very generous offer. Thank you very much, but I couldn't accept it. It's just that I work real hard for my money and I am not willing to just hand it over to a scumbag ebay seller. It seems like everyone feels that I am obligated to lose my $40 even though I have done nothing wrong. Hell Ziggy even posted that I might be lying about the facts. I blame ebay for not having a policy to handle this matter. >>

We all work hard for our money(some not so hard)- I just think it will save others money in the long run to stop guy's like this and the safer people feel buying coins on ebay means higher prices for stuff I sell. mike

MAD4MORGANS · February 1, 2005 9:44PM

Put me down for $10- as well, I believe you.

I've got to do some research, there may be a mediation process. Gotta run for now...will get back later!

roadrunner · February 1, 2005 9:47PM

It's easy for others to suggest how you should lose your $50 but things would likely be diff if the money was theirs and not yours.

I'd ensure you get your money back first. More than likely, this scumbag would come right back with another ID name if he got naru'd. If what you have is a naru'd offense, then whether you give him pos or neg FB makes no diff, he'll still be gone. The forum members can still give this joker a hard time following your transaction. I'd be willing to be his FB rating is under 98.5% if he pulls stunts like this. If it's not there yet, it will be eventually. Please post his name once you have your $50 back.

roadrunner

KurtHorn · February 1, 2005 10:05PM

BTW, 2centsin is no longer a registered ebay user. So, I assume this thread is not about him. I did notice something interesting on 2centsin's feedback though. People went ahead and left him positive feedback that blasted him. Maybe that could be a course of action for you like: (positive feedback) I have been extorted for positive feedback. Don't do Business with this slimeball!

Then you have fulfilled your obligation to this loser, get your money back, and then you can get busy and give us this guy's ebay id so we can all avoid/block his butt.

Coinhusker1 · February 1, 2005 11:06PM

FiveCents:

Tell him to refund the FULL $50 (since he mis-represented the coin, the BS "restocking" fee should not apply), and that you will leave positive feedback ONLY AFTER your receive the $50. Otherwise, state that you will file a claim with Ebay, and report him for feedback extortion.

If he claims you are extorting him, point out he has your e-mail in case you do not follow-up on your end.

Otherwise, if he does not refund your money (BEFORE you leave feedback) neg him and out him, and I will also kick in $10 of your lost money.l

Coinhusker1 · February 1, 2005 11:10PM

<< Sounds like a jwcameo experience

>>

What was your experience with jwcameo? Do tell, or link the thread this was discussed in.

I've avoided jwcameo auctions because I figure if the raw cameo coins he sells have not been slabbed, they are likely hairlined or have problems not apparent in the photos.

BigGreek · February 1, 2005 11:14PM

Count me in for a tenner if you neg him and don't get your refund.
Just send me your paypal address with proof and you will get $10.

I do this only because I've been in similar situations and I wish I had
done the right thing.

sinin1 · February 1, 2005 11:17PM

why did you send the PCGS slab back?

bad grade, descripion, picture?

I have done poorly in probably 25% my returns -

from claims of not receiving the coin - to I will send money as soon as I can (which is never I guess)

TUMUSS · February 1, 2005 11:17PM

I'm down for $10.

LouisCamp · February 1, 2005 11:21PM

Haha;

Yeah Paypal will back you up! I bought something, paid by paypal, never received it. Paid $45.00 for it. Paypal gave me 46c, said I was right and the issue was resolved. Sent them emails and never heard back.

The more I use ebay and paypal the more I like hitting myself in the face with a hammer.

Lou

ziggy29 · February 2, 2005 12:24AM

<< Hell Ziggy even posted that I might be lying about the facts. >>

No, I didn't. I merely said that it sounds stinky if the details are as you describe them. That's miles from saying "I think you may be lying."

But there are often two sides -- we've seen that repeatedly in threads about eBay transactions gone bad. Sometimes when people are upset, the complete set of facts don't come out even though the clear intent was to describe the situation completely and precisely. And there have been several threads where people have dumped all over an eBay trader, everyone jumps on their bandwagon, and then when the other side of the story comes out, on occasion it's pretty obvious that everyone was jumping to conclusions and the trader that everyone was calling a scumbag wasn't a scumbag at all.

Having said that, it sounds like this guy is slime and you're in the right. I can't imagine any circumstances under which this is acceptable conduct.

mr1931S · February 2, 2005 12:29AM

You could leave positive feedback like this for him after returning the merchandise,

"Merchandise returned. Give me my refund, DIMWIT!"

ms70 · February 2, 2005 12:36AM

Tell him to send the coin back. Nuke him bad with a negative on eBay, then resell the coin.

Don't forget to sign on via eBay Taiwan so you can leave extra long feedback.

KurtHorn · February 2, 2005 1:48AM

<< Don't forget to sign on via eBay Taiwan so you can leave extra long feedback. >>

How do you do that? I sure would like to know...

K6AZ · February 2, 2005 1:52AM

<< Eric....Does it make any difference that he is demanding POSITIVE feedback oppossed to just feedback?

I emailed him with the threat of being naru'd if I don't receive a prompt refund. I have yet to receive a response. >>

Yes, if it isn't negative feedback being threatened, eBay will not consider it feedback extortion.

How and when did you pay for this item?

XpipedreamR · February 2, 2005 1:52AM

<< 

<< Don't forget to sign on via eBay Taiwan so you can leave extra long feedback. >>

How do you do that? I sure would like to know... >>

taiwan feedback

MAD4MORGANS · February 2, 2005 1:57AM

Someone else wrote:

<< And there have been several threads where people have dumped all over an eBay trader, everyone jumps on their bandwagon, and then when the other side of the story comes out, on occasion it's pretty obvious that everyone was jumping to conclusions and the trader that everyone was calling a scumbag wasn't a scumbag at all. >>

Since recently joining the forum, I've only seen justified slamming and reporting of scumbag eBayers. Perhaps this might have happened in the past. Once this eBay seller is identified, and his transaction history shows him to be a rip-off artist, I'll be glad to hop on the bandwagon if fivecents can use any help!!

I'm big and ugly and I don't like eBay scumbags!!

Russ · February 2, 2005 2:00AM

<< I'm big and ugly >>

MadMarty alt ID?

Russ, NCNE

Bochiman · February 2, 2005 2:43AM

<< 

<< I'm big and ugly >>

MadMarty alt ID?

Russ, NCNE >>

Nah....Marty isn't big (from what I have been told)

clackamas · February 2, 2005 2:48AM

Eat the $40 and neg the bast$%d. What makes you think if you leave positive feedback that he is going to send your money? If he ses you are weak he is going to take further advantage of you. If you don't neg him you will feel like a wimp the rest of your life. Its $40 for gods sake not like even at Min wage you could not earn it in a couple of days. You have to stand up to these types and do everything in your ppower to make him pay. So many people let garbage like this slide that it encourages them. If you show weakness he is going to screw you.

nencoin · February 2, 2005 3:05AM

That eBay Taiwan feedback link is pretty nifty - thanks for posting it!

Good luck, fivecents. I hope you get matters resolved. It will be great to learn who this slimeball seller is, once everything is over.

Chris

Bochiman · February 2, 2005 3:33AM

Yeah...I still can't believe you haven't mentioned who he is.
Must be a pretty scary person to hide his identify? Or, did he threaten no refund if you told people who he was?

ziggy29 · February 2, 2005 3:40AM

<< Yeah...I still can't believe you haven't mentioned who he is.
Must be a pretty scary person to hide his identify? Or, did he threaten no refund if you told people who he was? >>

It would be nice to place a block on this creep if nothing else.

Russ · February 2, 2005 4:14AM

<< Nah....Marty isn't big (from what I have been told) >>

Talked to his wife?

Russ, NCNE

Does ebay allow a seller to withhold sending a refund until the buyer leaves positive feedback? Prob

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