Are the 1990s the new 1980s?

helionaut

I was looking through some ebay auctions (just imagine) and I came across a raft of PSA 10 1991 Topps 4SC had for sale. Not just stars, but also Lee Guetterman and Randy Velarde. 1991 Topps is a favorite set of mine because it's a great basic Topps set and also because it's the set that got me back into the hobby after an 8-year hiatus. I know financially it would be pointless to assemble a graded set, even all 10s, but do you think this is something that people might get into? There are people already building 1990 Leaf and 1992 Bowman, so how about this one?

MajorDanby

<< <i>I know financially it would be pointless to assemble a graded set, even all 10s, but do you think this is something that people might get into? >>



I grew up with that set (im relatively young). So, for collectors like me....it has some value....just like individuals who collected in the 70s or 80s....certain sets would have some value for them (as for me, i wouldnt be caught dead trying to assemble a set in the 70s or 80s). I doubt people will get "into it." At least if you define "people" as a criticial mass.

Onlypsahockey

I'm new to PSA but I've been collecting for over 30 yrs. IMO anything post 1988 will never hold value. The gradeable vintage cards today are truely fossils we are unearthing and preserving. Don't forget how we treated our cards as kids...pinning them to the wall, pitching them, glueing them in photo albums sitting around trading with your buddies...got 'em, got 'em, need 'em etc. We must have destroyed most of the production run in the first year of release alone or at least made them ungradeable. I can remember carrying my Bobby Orr cards around every day in my pocket with an elastic band wrapped around them. On the other hand the post '88 cards are immediately preserved for the most part. I just can't see them being tomorrows vintage. Just my opinion....sure wish I didn't rip up all those Dryden rookies back in '71. Bob

Wabittwax

I believe that almost EVERY set will be put together by people in the years to come. There are a lot of people out there who really do collect for the fun of it and the money part is almost irrelevant. I think that's a great thing.

Think about it. There are endless ways that each of us as Americans "waste" our money. Booze, tobacco, gambling, etc..... Heck, even a good wholesome family who spends $4000 on a Disneyland trip when they really could have done it for $2000. That $1200 barbeque grill. $3000 refrigerator. $5000 Plasma TV. $60,000 Benz. $25,000 on a pool. Do we really "need" all that stuff? No, it's a luxury for our hard work. The same applies to baseball cards. We all "waste" money on something. But, if it's something we enjoy, then it's not wasting at all. That's why I applaud people who consider it well money spent on cards, even if they know there is no chance to recoup 100% of their money. And if enough people didn't care about recouping their money, then the cards would have a strong value and they would recoup their money anyways if they wanted to.

Lothar52

i believe so....who would even think about doing a graded 89-90 fleer basketball set!!! i got the cards i want in my set...now just waiting for the money to grade them.

loth

jimtb

It's all realitive. I collected as a kid in the 70's. Back then, 1960's cards were worthless; the 50's cards were the ones to have. It cycles through. In 2020, the 91 Topps set will collectible. By the way, I love the 91 set. Great action shots, cool 4oth anniversary logo.

carew4me

I have to disagree.

I think the 1-2 punch of over-production and a game that lost its luster post-1990 will work to keep interest low.

The opposite is true for vintage, relatively low-production (and low amounts of high-grade vintage that have survivied combined
with a nostalgia of the game in a different era.

jimtb

Carew4me,
I think there will always be a soft spot for Topps with collectors, so those sets will always be collectible. Also, their are kids out there right now buying cards for the first time (a lot less kids than when we were young, though). When those kids hit their 30's, the 2005 Topps set will be a classic in their mind, and thus collectible.

BugOnTheRug

The following trend is occuring and gathering more steam:

Many seasoned collectors of graded newer (70's-80's) sets who have an exceptiional eye for quality/grading criteria are taking that knowledge and putting it into top-flight caliber raw set building. This means busting loads of cases, etc. of product to assemble an absolute top notch set that would rival or even surpass those on the registry. The thinking is if you expert at grading criteria, and looking for such things as great color, registration, focus, centering, etc. why not do it raw and eliminate the grading fees.

I'm in the primary stages of doing this and it will be challenging and rewarding, just like the registry.

1990's product is sooooo cheap these days, but like any mass produced product, it may take a while to find those few cards nearly impossible to find in impeccable condition. Yeah, it's 'still' a $10 set to the untrained or casual eye, but there are those who will know the effort and see the true results.

BOTR

qualitycards

STEVE - Well put!
As I've stated for years to customers in my store in the '80's & 90's - "Buy what you like, and what you can afford" ...jay

daywalker2029

1991 topps is a great set - as im one of the ppl that are building a 1990 leaf set - i dont think that it is a "waste" - it is a great set and i like it - but thats just me - if u like the 1991 topps set but are unsure of the long term value of the idea did u maybe think about assembling the 91 topps deresrt shield version ? a graded set of that would be more valuble especially cuz it is more lmtd then the tiffany edition of the 91 set

jimtb

BOTR - Downgoesfrazier immediately comes to mind as I read your post.
Great point,
Jim

pandrews

<< <i>Yeah, it's 'still' a $10 set to the untrained or casual eye, but there are those who will know the effort and see the true results.

BOTR >>



very good post..

carew4me

Hey I love the 91 topps issue. My point was more toward graded and the investment potential per se.

From a collecting standpoint a top notch set might have some exclusiveness, but the group of people who would appreciate
the effort would be small.

krunchtyme

The 91 Set will be collected, because It will contain the stars of the day. The kids now don't know the significance of a Mickey Mantle, they just know it is expensive. It will never cost as much or be a money maker to sell, but collecting is about collecting, not making money. To some of you it is a business, to others a passion or hobby. Hey 5 years ago, I couldn't sell the boxes of 1986 Topps Baseball. Now I see posts where people are grading them? They are pretty plentiful, but they look cool, so people will collect them. Same with the 91 set. Later

Wabittwax

<< <i>I have to disagree.

I think the 1-2 punch of over-production and a game that lost its luster post-1990 will work to keep interest low.

The opposite is true for vintage, relatively low-production (and low amounts of high-grade vintage that have survivied combined
with a nostalgia of the game in a different era. >>




I have to disagree with you.

Honestly, 1988 Topps is my all time favorite set for design and nostalgia. You are speaking from a different generation. There are many many people (millions) my age who collected cards back in the late 80's. I was born in 1975. My collecting years were primarily 1987-1992. Anything from the 50's and 60's really doesn't do anything for me. There is absolutely 0 nostalgia for anything that old for anybody under 40 years old. If you take out the money part, a 1988 Topps McGwire PSA 10 does a lot more for me that any Mickey Mantle card ever produced. There could be 500 million 88 Topps McGwire's floating around but it still doesn't change the nostalgia for me or change my affection for the card.

MajorDanby

<< <i>There could be 500 million 88 Topps McGwire's floating around but it still doesn't change the nostalgia for me or change my affection for the card. >>



That's what the hobby is for. Not really to buy the coolest looking or most expensive cards...but to buy and collect the ones that have some meaning beyond the monetary.

As soon as i had the money, i went out and bought all the griffey jr rookies out there. why? Because he was THE player to watch and collect when i was growing up as a adolescent.

Personally, i like the 89 topps design compared to the 88.

gregm13

<< <i>

<< <i> There is absolutely 0 nostalgia for anything that old for anybody under 40 years old. >>



I'm 30 and collect nothing but vintage football. My favorite set right now is 1959 - which I'm over 40% complete w/ an avg of 7.98. I agree that most younger people don't appreciate the vintage cards but I'm not one of them. What's funny is that I ignored the mid to late 70's issues until recently. Only now do I really appreciate the 73 to 79 sets along w/ anything produced prior to 1972.

Regards,

Greg M.

Axtell

I think that the more people collect for their own interests and likes (and not the invesment aspect) the more fun they will have.

Most people who collect a player for the set registry know this...I have a good number of Wade Boggs cards slabbed that are essentially worthless...but to me they cards are invaluable, because he's my all-time favorite player.

Some players (older players) of course are going to have valuable cards from their rookie cards through to their last issue, but I'd suspect a good majority of the player registries are in the same boat as I, where we collect cards for their interest to us, and not the investment aspect.

I also collect the 1971 set, but not for any reason other than I love the set. I have zero intention of ever selling it...I am not building it for some long term investment potential, I want to collect it because it's a set I love.

I think those collecting the 91 set (or whatever set you want) should be a labor of love...I am not going to be naive and say there should be no investing, but I think when we slide from fun >>>> investing, we lose some of why we collect cards in the first place.

AverageJoe

I love the 1991 Topps set.

I am working on the nearly impossible (but fun!) task of assembling a 1952 - 1991 run of graded Topps Baseball sets. I had to choose a cut off year and 1991 was perfect. The two main reasons for me were (1.) It was the last year Topps used the gray/brown card stock for a basic set before switching to the bland, sterile looking white stock in '92. (2.) Because of my age (35ish) this set bridges the gap between my boyhood idols, who started their careers in the late 60's and early 70's (Nolan Ryan, Pete Rose, George Brett, etc......) , with the players that are still playing today (Bonds, Chipper, Griffey, Sosa etc..)

I have as much or more fun working on my 80's thru '91 sets as I do the vintage. I submit most of the cards for my sets in these years and there's nothing more fun than busting packs, "pre-grading" them, submitting them and waiting in anticipation for the grades to be posted. (okay, the waiting part sucks). Taking a card from pack to set registry is fun and rewarding for me. I say, Why not do it while the packs, boxes, cases are still affordable and abundant?

Larry

RayBShotz

Incredulous topic; but I'm with Jay. Let it be all about the fun. I just think it's really cool that a bunch of guys are sitting around still talking about 1991 Topps. Who woulda thunk it! :-)
RayBShotz

For the record I still have my unopened vending case of 1986 Topps. If I get nuts someday I just might break it open and then.....

Fabfrank

I do both modern and vintage. Although I have no special attachemnt to the 91 topps set, I can understand someone wanting to grade it. I did the 89 Score Football set and am 1 card (#238 J. Taylor, Help me please!) from completing the set in all PSA 10. This was definitely a labor of love. I'll never sell this set.
I only disagree with the idea that all modern cards are overproduced, thus it's they're not worth grading. Yes there are many products from the 90's that were overproduced, but there are also many limited card sets too. With many of today's premium card sets containing limited # Rc's, it's near impossible to complete a set. But it's also part of the challenge for modern set builders.
Bottom line, as always, "Collect what you like, and you'll never go wrong"

jimtb

FabFrank,
Holy crap, you have the entire set in 10's???? That's incredible! How many did you personally submit?
Jim

Wabittwax

I'm 30 and collect nothing but vintage football. My favorite set right now is 1959 - which I'm over 40% complete w/ an avg of 7.98. I agree that most younger people don't appreciate the vintage cards but I'm not one of them. What's funny is that I ignored the mid to late 70's issues until recently. Only now do I really appreciate the 73 to 79 sets along w/ anything produced prior to 1972.

While many people our age collect and appriciate vintage cards, there really is no nostaglia because none of us were alive back then to collect those cards as a kid. The only exception would be is if you went right into ripping 20 year old packs as a kid, but who really did that?

Fabfrank

Jimtb- I actually was going to do the set in PSA 9. When I started 10's were expensive ($20-$30) per card. I submitted about 1/3 of the set (100 cards) and received about 25 tens. Prices than dropped on 10's to a point that I felt it was better to buy the card than to submit and hope to get a 10.
Like I said, this was a labor of love. I know raw sets go for less than the grading of 40 cards. I own some gorgeous raw sets, but wanted this set graded for myself and for protection.
This set makes me happy whenever I look at it, and isn't that the reason why we all collect?

baseballcardsonly

I love topics like this....First off, I'm 36 and I collect vintage for a couple of reasons. First one being the game has changed. Vintage players played for the love of the game, not the money they make. Most of the average players had off season jobs. They are just like us! Todays players are a joke. Most don't care if they win or lose, just as long as they get paid. The second and biggest reason I collect vintage and to this day still blows my mind is! How in the world does a piece of cardboard survive this long and still look the way some do? Doesn't anyone else think about that? When I see auctions for PSA 8 T-206's and PSA 9 Goudeys and Gem Mint 1952's I just about fall over....for christ sake, I bought my wife a new SUV 3 months ago and today if I had it graded it would be no better than a PSA 5/6 and its a hunk of metal!!!



just my .02!

Mark

Axtell

I think you may see people taking these roads to sets that are considerably available because they were what they collected.

I also think you may find people who relate more to these years of cards, and perhaps the cost of vintage in high grade is just far too out of reach.

goudeygold

If your collecting for fun, then collect what you like. empty beer bottles, bottle caps, maps, whatever. HOWEVER, if your collecting as a means to make some money, or atleast preserve your money your best to avoid anything modern. I'll stretch it and go all the way back to 1976. The thinking that collectibles are 20 years behind the curve (50's hot in the 70's, 70s hot in the 90s, etc...) is flawed. The reason vintage is increasing in value is because the vast majority of these cards were not preserved. they were flipped around, thrown out, recycled for the war, etc... Everything made after the boom in collectibility started around 1986, will always peak early then grind its way down, down, down. The book may say it has value, but the book and selling are two different things.

Aside from a very small percentage of cards from 1976 to present, 99.9% will prob never EVER apreciate in the same fashion cards from the 30s are today. not in 2020, not in 2120. Simply tooooooo many preserved, tooooooooo many produced, and toooooooooo many people think they are going to go up "someday". Simple economics. Keep watching Barry Bonds cards. nowhere but down, regardless of 800 HR, HOF, etc... you may get a small blip, but nothing will be sustained. The HOF, HR record are already factored into the price. Its just like in the stock markets when companies post profits and the stock goes down. Why? because the gains are already figured into the price.

Beating a dead horse here, but pre 49 is where the gold lies. right now, and more so in the future as raw cards continue to dry up. modern cards will never dry up.

Another example. Hot Wheels. old red lines always bring tons of money, anything new is well 69 cents. a few issues form the 80s are worth something but only mint on card and not touched. again, same story. nobody thinks there worth anything, thus they are. everyone thinks new ones will appreciate like the old ones are "someday", so they save them and they never will be. Too many nice ones, too many made, too many people hoarding them to "save". Another example is little golden books. Older issues that were 25 cents or less are worth something, some old ones are worth hundreds. why? because they cost 19-29 cents and they were played with and torn up. same issue again, old ones go up in value, people start saving new ones and the new ones are worth... yup. nothing, and never will be. too many made, too many people saving them.

so if your looking to invest, you better go with the babe ruth goudey, before you buy that dwayne wade glass signature cut hologram fingerprinted 1:1 doo dad. You'll thank me for it in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, etc...

GG