Franklins,PCGS vs NGC Grading
CUEBALL
Posts: 117
I have bought a few MS 64 and MS65 Franklins lately and I'm thinking of putting together a set in them grades.Who grades the tightest between PCGS and NGC. Also is there any difference in the FBL designation between the two and who do you prefer and why? Thanks for your comments.
0
Comments
Russ, NCNE
In 65 PCGS, but by the slimmesrt margins I can remember.
in 66 PCGS breaks away again and is much less tolerant of marks in the primary focal areas.
NGS is really tough on FBL, but closer to the old standard of both sets of lines.
PCGS is just wants the Bottom set full.
I was hoping for FBL on all except for the 53-S of course.
It sounds like any that do not make the FBL at NGC might make that designation at PCGS.
If NGC grades tighter on the FBL's why do the PCGS coins bring a premium?
I probably know the answer to this already.
I might have saved myself some money if I had submitted to PCGS in the first place.
-----------
etexmike
<< <i>I have bought a few MS 64 and MS65 Franklins lately and I'm thinking of putting together a set in them grades.Who grades the tightest between PCGS and NGC. Also is there any difference in the FBL designation between the two and who do you prefer and why? Thanks for your comments.
I 'll take apart this question in segments starting with who grades the tightest. My answers will be baised on my personal experiences with both NGC and PCGs and they may/may not agree with the Franklin experts on this board, and I don't see my opinion as the end all say all, it is hardly that.
PCGs grades the tightest, In ms65. I offer no opinion on ms67 because I have not had the oppertunity to study a good sampling of NGC ms67 coins.
Ms64 coins tend to both be baggy in both services holders yet they seem very equal to me, though I will admit I am unsure what constitutes a ms63 -ms61 Frankie in their minds, as I have found many in these ranges for very cheap, cracked them out and made a ms64 coin.....ms64 coins though they may get the FBL designation also tend to be poorly struck, PCGs doesn't like a hazy coin or a dark lusterless lifeless coin and these will be found in a ms64.... As far as brilliant ms64 Frankies, these tend to come from original rolls and tend to be baggy as the Franklin half has some wide open fields simply begging to get hit by another coin resulting in a mark or chatter.
Ms65 coins: From what I have seen, owned, cracked out, sold, a NGC ms65 coin on average tends to be more baggy then its PCGs counterpart. Now this isnt to say that you will not find some outstanding NGC GEM MS65 coins that are better then their rivals, but ingeneral I find this to be the case. IMO, upper end PCGs ms64 coins tend to make a 5 holder at NGC yet it is much tougher the other way around. I have had and expected it based on the coin, Many a NGC MS65 come back to me in a 4 holder by PCGs....
MS66 coins: I find them to be pretty even. In fact every single NGC MS66 Frankie I have ever cracked and submitted to PCGs has come back in the same MS66 holder, with TONED COINS! Out of the white MS66 NGC coins I have seen they tend to be somewhat baggy for the grade. But the toners often pulled from mint sets seem to be on par with each other....... Many NGC Frankies can be foiund at some great bargian rates, but then if your looking to holder them with PCGs one must consider the costs and risk of doing so.
Now for the Bell Lines, as many have already stated, NGC has a tougher criteria however, one must still study this area of the coin regardless of which grading company. Case in point, I started a thread several years back on the NGC boards showing a Frankies bell lines and asking would this coin FBL? And the majority of the board at NGC said not with NGC but it would with PCGs. The thread turned real silent on me when I revealed that the coin inquestion was a NGC MS64FBL coin.
NGC grades all 7 rows of Bell Lines The upper set and the lower set as seen in this image:
You will notice that the lines are very bold, well struck, full and complete without a interuption. I am talking both sets here.
PCGs only grades the lower set of lines and they must be full and uninterupted from one side of the bell to the other, now with this said bot services have shown some leniancy before the crack to the left of crack running thru the bell depending on the date of issue such as coins from the 60's.
So I have heard, been told, that NGC coins are true FBL's and PCG's don't 'pass the muster', as it was once put to me. However, the majority of the PCGs FBL coins I have owned, seen, sold tend to have all 7 lines full anyways. Typically a well struck Franklin will have them all full...
Here is a example of a well struck Frankie in a PCGs holder that I will call a 'Hammered' coin:
Notice the bold lettering on this coin with Bell Lines that can cut your fingers if your not careful, notice the Pass and Stow which practicaly jump off of the coin. This coin (and my image of it is crappy) is a slamdunk FBL at both services.
Bottom line is study the coin prior to purchase, as both services will pass along some iffy FBL coins but in general, you will get a nice FBL coin with either one.
Now which do I prefer? A interesting question, my loyality does reside with PCGs, but I have many lovely NGC holdered Frankies in my vault. I really love how the White NGC holder shows the beauty of a nicely toned Frankie, and in this case I prefer NGC. However, in all honesty, PCGs coins command a higher premium therefore I want all my Ultra Gems to be in PCGs holders, its a matter of simple economics.
You will not go wrong buying the coin based on your personal expectations, regardless of the holder...
Happy collecting Hepcat!
Lucille
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
I wish that I had it about 3 weeks ago. I'll wait and see how my NGC Frankie submission goes.
Live and learn I guess.
-----------
etexmike
I'd recommend going for eye appeal on coins in the 64 and 65 grade, and favor 65 non-FBL coins over say a 64FBL coin. Actually, I'd stay away from 64 coins altogether if you can afford 65 coins. Most dates in 65non-FBL can be had at very favorable prices, and there's something to be said for hitting the magical 65 grade. They may even be cheaper than 64FBL prices for some dates. One exception, the more common FBL dates in 64 grades shouldn't command much of a premium at all over non-FBL grades. Some dates just come FBL for the most part.
I prefer PCGS FBL grading. NGC gets a little too carried away with small marks on the bell lines, etc., as opposed to FBL being an indication of a nice strong strike.