Question about grading with regard to strike designation

slabfab

I have a question on how to regard strike designations as they relate to grading. I understand that strike is an important part of the overall grade for mint state coins. So let's assume we have two coins with same date/mint at the same grade by the same grading service and one is designated and the other is not. For arguments sake let's pick on the Franklin series and pick an MS64 and an MS64FBL.

We know, by definition, that the designated coin has a superior strike. My question is this, if both coins are at the same grade level, but one has a superior strike, does that imply that the designated coin is inferior with regard to perservation, luster or eye appeal? In other words, if we ignore strike entirely might the MS64FBL have graded at MS63? If so, why do designated coins draw a higher premium? Or is it that the coins would still both grade MS64 (ignoring strike)?

Another way of asking this: Is the inferior strike of a non desginated coin the factor that typically holds it back from making the next grade? I.e. an MS64 would actually grade MS65FBL if it had a stronger strike?

I hope I have been sufficiently lucid in describing my confusion. What is your understanding and experience?

coinguy1

<< <i>We know, by definition, that the designated coin has a superior strike >>

Not necessarily in all areas, just the bell lines, in your example. That is part of the problem with designations - they only focus on one (small) portion of the coin.



<< <i>My question is this, if both coins are at the same grade level, but one has a superior strike, does that imply that the designated coin is inferior with regard to perservation, luster or eye appeal? In other words, if we ignore strike entirely might the MS64FBL have graded at MS63? >>

My answers would be no and no. The designation should be a separate/independent factor from the grade itself.

slabfab

Thanks Mark. My intuition tends to agree, but I am having trouble then reconciling why designated coins tend to go for 3X or more of their non designated equivalents!!! If we are talking about the strike in a very small area of the coin, why does this carry such a premium? What is the attraction? I'm just trying to get this all straight in my head.

Russ

<< <i>but I am having trouble then reconciling why designated coins tend to go for 3X or more of their non designated equivalents!! >>



Same reason beautifully toned coins bring multiples of sheet, and condition rarity moderns bring stupid money. Fever.

Russ, NCNE

slabfab

So it would seem then, that I should separate market value from quality? Absurd, but as you said, stupid money! Of course, scarcity and demand also play a role in the market.

Back to Mark's point, how can we separate strike designation when strike is part of the grading formula?

coinguy1

Frank, it is understandable that you are "having trouble then reconciling why designated coins tend to go for 3X or more of their non designated equivalents". Sometimes they sell for even far greater premiums than that.

I think collectors have been trained over many years to focus on and pay extra for the designations. I often prefer the relative value and other attributes of the coins without the designations. For example, you might find a near-FH Standing Liberty Quarter at a fraction of the price of a FH example and the non-FH piece might be far superior in most other aspects.

Like anything else in the hobby, I think collectors should focus on what they like, not what they are told they should like.

Edited to add:

<< <i>Back to Mark's point, how can we separate strike designation when strike is part of the grading formula? >>

Think of strike as just one of the components of the grade and not even the most important one. And, the strike of the "designation" area doesn't always carry over to other parts of the coin. So, you might have an overall well struck coin with some weakness at the "designation" area or even the converse.

slabfab

<< <i>Like anything else in the hobby, I think collectors should focus on what they like, not what they are told they should like. >>



Point taken. So then we are agreed that an MS64 and MS64FBL are essentially grade equivalent coins with the designated coin having the footnote: "hey this coin has a nice strike" ??

TommyType

Didn't Dave Bowers have a column, or series of columns on this topic recently in Coin World? He had just the same comments as Mark with respect to standing quarters.

Bowers is championing (at least passively) the designation "Full Details" or FD for ALL coin types.

slabfab

<< <i>I think collectors have been trained over many years to focus on and pay extra for the designations. >>



Another thought: Perhaps some of this "training" has come from the registry sets that award bonus points for these designations, no?

coinguy1

<< <i>So then we are agreed that an MS64 and MS64FBL are essentially grade equivalent coins with the designated coin having the footnote: "hey this coin has a nice strike" ?? >>

No, I'm not that easy. I'd edit your quote to read "hey this coin has a nice strike (as per the requirements for meeting the assigned designation) at the "designation" area.



<< <i>Another thought: Perhaps some of this "training" has come from the registry sets that award bonus points for these designations, no? >>

Yes, a continuation of pre-registry training.

slabfab

Again, point well taken. Thanks, Mark, this thread has been very educational.