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PSA Lawsuit Interesting Reading
Chew
Posts: 71
For those who are interested, here are two sites with info on the suit, Joe Orlando and Wiwag.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mb?s=CLCT
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1106799568&lp=1106938626
I think you can exspect more when the court transcripts become available.
H. Walker
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mb?s=CLCT
http://www.network54.com/Forum/thread?forumid=153652&messageid=1106799568&lp=1106938626
I think you can exspect more when the court transcripts become available.
H. Walker
0
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-Al
ANNUAL REPORT PURSUANT TO SECTION 13 OR 15(d) OF THE SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934
PART 1, ITEM 3. LEGAL PROCEEDINGS
ITEM 3. LEGAL PROCEEDINGS
Real Legends, Inc. v. When It Was a Game, et al . The Company has been named as a defendant in this action, which has been brought in the Superior Court of California, County of San Diego, by Real Legends, Inc., a seller of sports cards ("plaintiff"). In its suit, plaintiff has alleged that its business was ruined by its association with When It Was a Game ("WIWAG"), a sports card dealer who consigned sports cards to plaintiff, which sold those sports cards on eBay. It was subsequently discovered that WIWAG misrepresented the quality and authenticity of many of those sports cards that were sold, on its behalf, by plaintiff. The plaintiff does not contend that the Company was in any way involved in WIWAG’s conduct. However, plaintiff contends that the Company is nevertheless responsible for the damage sustained by plaintiff as a result of WIWAG’s activities, based on allegations made by plaintiff that the Company knew of prior incidents of questionable behavior by WIWAG and nevertheless introduced WIWAG to plaintiff without disclosing that information to plaintiff; allegations which the Company has denied. The plaintiff has claimed damages to its business amounting to $4,000,000 and is also seeking punitive damages against the Company, as well as the other defendants. The Company is vigorously defending against, and believes that it will not incur any liability to plaintiff in, this action.
The Company is named, from time to time, as a defendant in lawsuits that arise in the ordinary course of its business. We believe that none of those lawsuits currently pending against it is likely to have a material adverse effect on the Company.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
2005 Origins Old Judge Brown #/20 and Black 1/1s, 2000 Ultimate Victory Gold #/25
2004 UD Legends Bake McBride autos & parallels, and 1974 Topps #601 PSA 9
Rare Grady Sizemore parallels, printing plates, autographs
Nothing on ebay
Loves me some shiny!
Remember their agenda and the rest will come into focus.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
This was the only fact I could find with reference to Real Legends - it is a public record. The rest was speculation? If this is pending, or on going, then I could see PSA not commenting at this time. However, they should be aware of the prior PR nightmare they had with this forum regarding the WIWAG scandal.
When the WIWAG scandal was announced, Joe responded with the ' no comment ' approach. Which was fine considering the pending litigation, however he also said after it was over there would be a follow up to the questions raised by the forum. This has not occurred to date?? Speculation has been wide spread every since which has given fuel to the fire.
The ' 1% reference ' comment directed to the forum members did not go over well either. Many felt this reflected PSA's attitude towards the forum members at that time. Things have been much better when Joe/PSA chooses to communicate on these types of issues.
I was curious about the details and I've satisfied that curiosity. I agree, there's nothing new here except for one sentence ...
However, plaintiff contends that the Company is nevertheless responsible for the damage sustained by plaintiff as a result of WIWAG’s activities, based on allegations made by plaintiff that the Company knew of prior incidents of questionable behavior by WIWAG and nevertheless introduced WIWAG to plaintiff without disclosing that information to plaintiff; allegations which the Company has denied.
... did PSA introduce WIWAG to Real Legends?
I believe some of PSA's practices and business MO verge on racketeering, so I would be interested in seeing how this and other unethical business practices come out.
<< <i>I don't think anybody on this forum really wants to read this rubbish. PSA is the industry leader and will continue to be just that. No amount of frivilous lawsuits will change that. >>
Blah, blah blah...
This guy must work for PSA.
<< <i>his guy must work for PSA. >>
Nah, if he worked for PSA he would've censored it.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
If this is true I should start filing frivilous lawsuits-
Collectors Universe (PSA) Settles with Real Legends
January 26 2005 at 11:19 PM
Bottom of the Ninth (Login BOTN)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the conclusion of today's testimony by Joe Orlando, Collectors Universe settled before the matter was handed to the jury. Apparently Orlando was not even able to admit that PSA has a grading room. You can expect most of his testimony to be without merit. Steve Rocchi and Mike Baker's testimony over the last two days was also too damaging.
According to CU's financial statement footnotes, the suit was for $4,000,000.00, although counsel for Real Legends says they were not suing for that much. Real Legends ended up getting $600,000.00 and the public ends up getting the chance to see all court transcripts and hear what really happened with WIWAG. CU tried to get a non disclosure agreement but since they are publicly traded it was denied.
This comment seems to be the pivotal part of the case:
"...the Company knew of prior incidents of questionable behavior by WIWAG and nevertheless introduced WIWAG to plaintiff without disclosing that information to plaintiff."
I'd like to know what "questionable behavior" means? It really opens a slippery slope for anyone in any business. If PSA discloses what they believe is questionable behavior (not necessarily illegal), then that could leave themselves open to being sued by the "questionable" party.
I could write more, but this thread will probably be pulled and I can't blame them. Sorry for all you utopian collectors out there, but when you find any major company that allows total strangers to come on to their private property and spew negative comments about their business, please let me know who they are. I don't know of any.
Thank you for posting actual excerpts from the public records rather than speculation and conjecture.
koby
See beckett.com
<< <i>This guy must work for PSA. >>
On the contrary, I think DaBigHurt is just too good at sarcasm and a lot of us aren't getting it. Just waiting for "heh" to creep into his conversation...
This thread will be gone by Monday morning anyways.
how has psa been good to you? you pay psa to grade and encapsulate your cards?
ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
I think Ebay is a little bigger than PSA and I am no fan of there customer service but I have never saw them delete and kick off people on the chat boards. I have read a lot of nasty stuff directed towards Ebay and most of the posters are real idiots that are only posting to fight.
Jim
I enjoy PSA graded cards and particpate in the Registry (Mark's C55 Basic Hockey - and you can see my other sets from that one). I have thousands of raw cards and will get a fair number of the older sets (total count under 100 cards per set) graded along with HOF sets from each sport. I buy other graded cards, crack them out and send to PSA.
In short, while not a stockholder, I feel I have an investment in PSA's success. Erasing discussion of PSA problems and issues seems pretty dumb to me. It drives good people off the CU board and over to LTS and Net54. I don't see how it benefits CU to not hear first hand what their customer base is thinking.
Ford, GM and other successful corporations spend a lot of money on focus groups to guage reaction to their products and services. The CU boards can and should do the same for PSA.
Hall of Famers from all 4 sports
<< <i>This is a real issue, It is not going away by being ignored. How many reslabbed cards are out there and the serial #'s?? I just got a Koufax PSA 7 via ebay, clearly way over graded. Not close, I suspect it's reslabbed, a good job. Now what?? This is why the #'s should be published, a program to deal with reslabbing if necess or repurchase should be part of any settlement; the victims are often us individual collectors. Bob >>
We are always the victims.
H, Walker
You want to trash PSA? Take it across the street!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>I wonder how many of you instigators will be banned come monday.
You want to trash PSA? Take it across the street!
Those streets seem to be filled with this info. too, it's not going away, until someone gives out a list of "suspicious" serial numbers. If you don't want to see that, then you must be an ass-kisser, or complete moron (possibly both). Instigators ??? For reporting what happened in a court of law, they are instigators ?? Whether the "truth" is good or bad for PSA, it needs to come out, playing the role of silent
B*TCH isn't going to help matters either way, many people (who have $$$ tied up in PSA) want to know, and somebody who represents them needs to be a MAN and issue a PR statement I know having a spine/being a man is difficult for these multi-million dollar corporations, but that's not our problem, it's their own personal issues. If nothing else, they can issue a message board statement w/ a "sticky" and then block replies to that message, but leave it up to be read by everyone....
<< <i>I wonder how many of you instigators will be banned come monday.
You want to trash PSA? Take it across the street!
Also, college students should have to listen to comments like yours in Business 101, when they get the chapter on how "NOT TO F*UCK THINGS UP !!!!
Wayne
<< <i>I dont understand. All of the bad work was done by WIWAG. How in the world would PSA know anything about the number of cards or the cert number of the cards in question? It seems to me like Rolex having to be able to tell someone of all the fraudulent Rolex's in circulation. How would they even know and why should they know? >>
they should have a list of the cards they grade in such huge bulk for dealers, i'm not saying they knew that WIWAG was altering their cards, but they knew/know the guys in question, and they were huge bulk submitters....somewhere there has to be receipts or some kind of records on which cards/serial # holders were shipped to those dealers. The "cases" / holders w/ the serial numbers/grade numbers are really the question, does the marketplace now have many PSA holders w/ DIFFERENT cards inside than what PSA graded ???? sure, PSA could have had nothing to do w/ the scam, but if they didn't, then why don't they supply the serial #'s of these cards, or at least make an excuse for why they can't do that?? These guys had sophisticated machines to seal those holders back after they were tampered with if your wondering about the "how did they do it" process....
Wayne
1) Did they have a sealing sonic machine (same used as PSA) for the slabs, and where did they get it?
2) Where did they receive their supply of slabs (holders)?
No one thinks PSA had any association with WIWAG. However, security concerns over the storage of PSA's slab supplies did surface at that time (WIWAG scandal). Once an old slab was opened, the PSA label could easily be transferred to the new slab. So, I don't see an issue regarding the flips. The big question is ... could this occur again - will it occur again? Knowing how WIWAG accomplished the switch will help educate us. Many wanted to see enhanced security features designed into the PSA slab. It appears the hologram and decoder didn't prevent this?? To my knowledge, it was a PSA forum member reporting a modern serial numbered card not matching a PSA serial number, as they had possession of the card at one time?
WIWAG did e-mail EBAY members that purchased cards from their auctions. And, PSA would review any card in question from these auctions. I'm not sure how many cards were purchased from WIWAG through other avenues? However, it appeared Real Legends used them as a source?
the membership/customer # is right on the invoice. it should be very easy to find out the potentially tainted slabs.
the machine was on display at the trial
Plus every single matter that I've had to call PSA about, they've handled great and to my satisfaction. I had a problem with PSA at one of the Nationals a few years back due to a couple cards being damaged during grading. I spoke to the "leader" of the old regime (you know who I'm talking about). When I implied that it wasn't right that my cards were damaged, his first question to me was "So do you submit a lot of cards to PSA?" What the f does that have to do with my 2 cards being damaged? The problem was resolved but I'm guessing that's because I answered "yes" to that question. That's the kind of crap I'm talking about. I feel that Joe Orlando has done a great job at clearing up PSA's name in the past couple years and they now have my 100% confidence.
<< <i>Plus every single matter that I've had to call PSA about, they've handled great and to my satisfaction >>
Here as well. Great customer service and quick responses with a hands on prez.
They really do need to let the customers know which cards were tainted. They owe it to the many supporters.
To any attorney...could there be a case for a class action?