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Bah, humbug! to Windy City's recantation regarding Heritage, and an open letter to Steve Ivy
Justhavingfun
Posts: 835 ✭
No surprise that Heritage finally made nice to Mr. Windy City. Heritage is anything but dummies. It seems obvious to me that when WindyCity's original thread gained a life of its own and began to snowball, Heritage did damage control.
But would they have made nice to Mr. Windy City if he hadn't started the thread? If the thread hadn't begun to snowball? If more and more collectors -- not just WindyCity --hadn't begun relating their own horror stories of dealing with Heritage?
In my considered opinion, I doubt it.
I think Heritage should have made good the error and swallowed their own mistake on their own, immediately, without pressure. And I'm not speaking as a collector, though of course I am one. But speaking as a businessman who's started and built more than one multi-million dollar business, I can tell you that bad customer relations is bad business.
Dear Steve Ivy: We met many, many years ago under ICTA auspices. I enjoyed your company, found you to be the sharpest mind there, and walked away with all sorts of good memories of you, including a memory that you could be open-minded. And I'm urging you to be open-minded again, this time about customer relations, not because it will make you a good guy, but because it will end up making you more money.
And I know you're making a lot of money right now, and that's great. And I know you have the right to set any customer-satisfaction policy you wish. But overconfidence is the curse of very successful businesses, and the way Windy City's original thread took on a life of its own should be a loud and clear warning to you that you're making too many enemies of the people you want for your customers.
The secret of long-lived businesses is good customer relations and you can have them if you put your mind to it. The complaints registered on Windy City's original thread are a good place to start.
From my own naive reading of them, most seemed like reasonable gripes. Why don't you have someone with an IQ higher than an eggplant investigate them? Give him or her authority to settle the reasonable grievances and do whatever seems best with the unreasonable one. Heck, in my business I even settle the unreasonable ones. But that's for you to decide, not me. It will cost money but in the scheme of things it's peanuts and -- in business -- bread cast upon the waters comes back to you.
More important: I suggest you set company policy to give you really, really want good customer relations.
A Texas boy like you should remember how Neiman Marcus exploded on the business scene and came from nowhere to become one of the great retailers in the nation. Well read "Quest for the Best" by Stanley Marcus, the co-founder of Neiman Marcus. The book explains how GREAT customer relations fueled that explosive growth. Great book, great read. 26 years old it may be out of print. But it's made me a ton of money and will make you a ton of money if you take the time to read it. If you'd like to get a copy, but can't find one, drop me a note at iamjusthavingfun@hotmail.com, and I'll send you a copy with my compliments.
Best wishes,
Justhavingfun
But would they have made nice to Mr. Windy City if he hadn't started the thread? If the thread hadn't begun to snowball? If more and more collectors -- not just WindyCity --hadn't begun relating their own horror stories of dealing with Heritage?
In my considered opinion, I doubt it.
I think Heritage should have made good the error and swallowed their own mistake on their own, immediately, without pressure. And I'm not speaking as a collector, though of course I am one. But speaking as a businessman who's started and built more than one multi-million dollar business, I can tell you that bad customer relations is bad business.
Dear Steve Ivy: We met many, many years ago under ICTA auspices. I enjoyed your company, found you to be the sharpest mind there, and walked away with all sorts of good memories of you, including a memory that you could be open-minded. And I'm urging you to be open-minded again, this time about customer relations, not because it will make you a good guy, but because it will end up making you more money.
And I know you're making a lot of money right now, and that's great. And I know you have the right to set any customer-satisfaction policy you wish. But overconfidence is the curse of very successful businesses, and the way Windy City's original thread took on a life of its own should be a loud and clear warning to you that you're making too many enemies of the people you want for your customers.
The secret of long-lived businesses is good customer relations and you can have them if you put your mind to it. The complaints registered on Windy City's original thread are a good place to start.
From my own naive reading of them, most seemed like reasonable gripes. Why don't you have someone with an IQ higher than an eggplant investigate them? Give him or her authority to settle the reasonable grievances and do whatever seems best with the unreasonable one. Heck, in my business I even settle the unreasonable ones. But that's for you to decide, not me. It will cost money but in the scheme of things it's peanuts and -- in business -- bread cast upon the waters comes back to you.
More important: I suggest you set company policy to give you really, really want good customer relations.
A Texas boy like you should remember how Neiman Marcus exploded on the business scene and came from nowhere to become one of the great retailers in the nation. Well read "Quest for the Best" by Stanley Marcus, the co-founder of Neiman Marcus. The book explains how GREAT customer relations fueled that explosive growth. Great book, great read. 26 years old it may be out of print. But it's made me a ton of money and will make you a ton of money if you take the time to read it. If you'd like to get a copy, but can't find one, drop me a note at iamjusthavingfun@hotmail.com, and I'll send you a copy with my compliments.
Best wishes,
Justhavingfun
Jefferson nickels, Standing Libs, and US-Philippines rock
0
Comments
Well said
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I attended the last Platinum Night Auction in Florida, and the TWO #1 Gold Registry Sets, ( one 12 piece MS set and one 8 piece Proof set ), with some amazing coins, were placed, by Heritage, at the very last pages of the catalogue.
The main problem here is that, Heritage placed some extremely great coins at auction at 2:00 AM, and placed a lot of average "fillers" before them. If anything, these two gold collections should have been placed in the Beginning of the calalogue.
Heritage, knowing these coins would auction in the early morning hours through their many years of auction experience, auctioned these, mostly pop 1 coins, to an almost empty room, at 2:00 AM.
How could these coins realize their full auction potential to an almost empty room of bidders ?
I bet even phone bidding was effected.
Dealers had to be up early the next day for the Bourse, ( so most left by midnight ), and people at home, ( phone bidders ), have jobs. Therefore the bidding on these gold coins had to be greatly reduced.
When I realized the extremely bad planning Heritage displayed in this past Platinum night auction, I made up my mind to use another auction company, when I sell my collection.
Nothing Steve Ivy could say, would change my position on this paticular shoddy auction sheduling.
Although, I would like to know, if other great collections will be auctioned at 2:00 AM in the future and why they allowed this past fiasco. I know Heritage did not lose money, but the consignor must have been extremely displeased.
<< <i>I've had my last problem with them. For what it's worth, I arbitrarily returned all three coins I just bought from them at an Ex. Internet Sale. I'm done until they start treating people in a more professional way. When you're high bid--that should be it. And there is no excuse for these horrible photos anymore--I've seen better from the Civil War taken on glass!!! >>
I'm not too high on their photography abilities as well but how long does it take to photograph 11000 coins for an auction? And there's two sides to every coin so that's double that number of (22000) pictures. My math tells me 91 days (excluding weekends) at 2 minutes a shot in 8 hour shifts. Of course that time could be cut in half by working two shifts a day or a 10 hour day. They must be using some kind of mechanical means to run through that many coins.
Just a thought!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
In my case, I had a few mistakes with Heritage occur in early 2003 that could have severely ruined a consignment of mine. First, they stuck the coins in the wrong sale (a month or two early) of all things! Luckily that that was caught by a friend of mine (thanks D!) and we got them put back in a nick of time into the original sale agreed to (platinum night at Long Beach). Next, the photos came out and they stunk. I had them redo them. Those came out fine. I supplied 95% of the catalog information to them on my coins and their history/former sales/pedigrees/rarity. Why leave that to chance as the 2 coins were rather unique and after all, who knew them better than me? Heritage used nearly all of my information. Frankly, I did most of the work for them other than photography. It probably helped get more money for the coins....it least it didn't hurt.
Heritage did their part by ensuring a winning bidder and a strong underbidder (or 2) was present at the sale. No strong underbidders means so-so results.
I also had them write in the contract that one of the key coins had a full page spread (actually JH suggested this and I concurred). You get what you ask for and nothing more.
The auction consignment arena has a lot of pitfalls. I'd almost suggest a forum open to just discussing that as there is a lot to account for to ensure you get what is rightly yours. In the smaller auctions of 10-20 years ago you could consign your coins and then figure on good attendance. Today you have to be a hands-on player in the consignment and cataloguing process if you want to help ensure solid results, otherwise you'll get lost among the other
10,000 lots and 500 consignors.
roadrunner
I checked the auction prices for those coins and I believe at least 50% of those coins did "fall through the cracks". Also, those two PCGS Gold Registry Sets were advertised by Heritage very early on, so I do not think it was a late consignment.
Maybe the late consignment of the GOLD RUSH Collection had something to do with the coins I am speaking about, being placed as the last lots of the night, ( day ) ?, 2:00 AM.
I think there is more to auctioning one's coins than most people think. READ THE FINE PRINT !!!!!!!!!!!
I'll take your word for the proof coins and Indian gold in that set, but when I was checking PR's I looked at half dozen of the MS Liberty coins (my preference in gold) and was pretty astounded at the prices. Now if some crackouts didn't get full attention I can't say since I didn't view them. But the last coin here sure seems like "crackout" was in the thought process.
1893 half eagle PCGS MS68 $29,900
1883-s eagle PCGS MS66 $36,800
1908-s eagle PCGS MS68 $149,500 !!
1900 double eagle MS66 $17,422 !!!!
1925 double eagle MS67 $32,200 !!!!!!!!!
The 2nd to last lot in the sale, 1925 $20, brought 3-4X MS67 type coin pricing (albeit only 4 or so graded). I don't see much to tell me that these lots didn't realize strong money.
roadrunner
JHF - A thread FULL of wisdom. Thank you for taking the time to prepare it.
I will say that my FUN experience with Heritage was sensational. I was unable to attend FUN due to business here on the West Coast. But, I needed to bid on some coins spread over numerous auction sessions (which were lot viewed for me by one of the undisputed "world class graders" on DH's list). A few coins here and a few coins there - days apart and at all times of the day. On every occasion, Heritage was on the ball - calling me hours in advance to inform me that they had confirmation of the coins I was interested in bidding on in each session, calling me to inform me of dinner breaks or other delays and inviting me to attend via phone HUNDREDS of lots of interest to me just for information purposes where they knew I would not be competing for many coins (they were just being nice to allow me to keep a pulse on the markets I am concerned about). I even got a call after one session was over to discuss with me the coins I had won. Indeed, in one of the last bidding sessions of the auction (I was buying a cool 25% OC 1923(s) SLQ for a customer), I received so many friendly calls from Heritage regarding the bidding on that lot that I had to turn my phone off because I knew everything was under control and it was Saturday afternoon and my family was getting a bit upset I was being pulled away from them on the one day off of the week I set aside to spend the day with them! But, it did not end there - all the coins I won were shipped promptly following the auction in the proper split up of overnight boxes so that no single lost box would result in a "six figure" claim. One must give credit where credit is due and from the aspect of being able to bid on coins (after all that is as key as anything else to a successful auction) - Heritage went the extra mile. TWO...
Wondercoin
1883-s eagle PCGS MS66 $36,800
1908-s eagle PCGS MS68 $149,500 !!
1900 double eagle MS66 $17,422 !!!!
1925 double eagle MS67 $32,200 !!!!!!!
RR, The 1893 PCGS MS 68 is a pop 1 with only one MS 67 below it.
The gold rush 1897-s sold for $74,750. It is a pop1 with 3 MS 67s below it. There are only 6 MS 68 $5 LIBS for the years 1866-1908, so I think the MS 68 1893 $5 was "a good deal".
The 1883-s $10, PCGS MS66, is a pop one coin with NONE graded in MS 65, None in 64, and only one in 63. A very rare and by all accounts I heard, extremely high eye appeal. It was also Bass pedigree, so at $36,800, Includes juice, "another good deal".
I just want to add that the 1908-s MS68 $10 is considered to be the finest of the two known.
The 1908-s $10, PCGS MS 68, was bought over the phone by a Laura Sperber client, and was undeniably the only "moon money" coin from those 2:00 AM coins. The other known PCGS 1908-s sold about ten years ago for about $240,000, so there is not really a huge surprise here to me.
The last two coins you mentioned, might have been crack out material, I don't know, but like I said, I think at least 50% of those coins auctioned at 2:00 AM "fell through the cracks". There were, I believe, 22 gold coins, and I say again, if they had sold at a reasonable hour, the consignor may have realized at least 10% more for his coins. WE know what they sold for at 2:00 AM. I am just wondering if they sold at say 10:00 PM and did realize only 10% more, then that would translate into roughly $80,000 - $90,000 more dollars for the consignor. That is a significant amount of dollars in my book.
Since many of you have asked, here is a brief rundown of what happened with WindyCity and a few others. A consignor gave us his reserves well in advance of the sale posting on-line. We inadvertently mis-filed it resulting in the reserves not getting posted. The morning after the session where 8 of the coins sold, the consignor brought it to our attention. Item #17 of our Terms and Condition of Sale state as follows:
Auctioneer reserves the right to rescind the sale in the event of nonpayment, breach of a warranty, disputed ownership, auctioneer's clerical error or omission in exercising bids and reserves, or otherwise.
We still felt terrible about the error as it was completely our fault. Three of us (myself included) spent 4 hours that morning in Florida figuring out what happened, meeting with the consignor, and meeting with the buyers who were in attendance at FUN. In as many instances as possible, we worked out a deal with the consignor so the bidder got to buy the item at a fair price well below the reserve and we paid the consignor and made up the difference out of our own pockets, which we believed was more than fair considering that we had every legal right based on the terms to negate the sale in the event of a misplaced reserve.
Looking back on the situation, we absolutely should have called those bidders (like WindyCity) who were not in attendance at FUN that morning and dealt with them the same as the bidders we sat down with in person. I regret having not done that. I won't make excuses, we made some mistakes that morning with how this was handled, and I take full responsibility for that serious lapse in customer service.
Though things went pretty darn smooth at the Heritage FUN Signature Sales, with 8,000+ bidders and $61MM in coins and currency sold to 2,950 unique bidders, we learned from this incident and have since placed a double check system in place to help insure this doesn't happen again. If it does, hopefully we will handle it better. Steve, Jim and I have been involved with rare coins since childhood, we love what we do and we don't take it for granted. We are working every day to make the customer experience as good as we can, whether buyer, seller, bidder or consignor, which is one of the reasons we have been the only company to disclose reserves on-line so you know if you are bidding against a real bidder or against a consignors reserve. We know that they key to customer confidence is transparency, and we learn more every day.
This forum seems to be nice place for some people (not WindyCity who is a first class guy in my book) to throw out random attacks on us while hiding behind the anonymity of a username. You certainly have every right to do so, but if you truly want to resolve your problem I invite you to email me directly to Greg@HeritageGalleries.com and let me see if I or someone on our staff can either fix your problem or explain why we did what we did. Even though I'd love to, in the litigious society in which we live in we won't get into a public debate on a Forum with anyone about their business dealings with us, even to defend ourselves when we are confident in the fairness and reasonableness of our position.
Thank you all for your input.
Sincerely,
Greg Rohan
===
Gregory J. Rohan
President
Heritage Galleries & Auctioneers
3500 Maple Avenue, 17th floor
Dallas, Texas 75219-3941
Phone: 214-528-3500/800-USCOINS(872-6467)
Direct fax: 214-528-2596
Email to: Greg@HeritageGalleries.com
Assistant: Vandy Little 214-252-4218 Email:Vandy@HeritageGalleries.com
===
Join www.HeritageCoins.com. Please also visit www.HeritageGalleries.com and www.HeritageComics.com. Over 185,000 members!
President
HERITAGE AUCTIONS
3500 Maple Avenue
Dallas, Texas 75219-3941
Phone: 214-528-3500 / Private fax: 214-409-1596
Email to: Greg@HA.com
It's hard to understand what pop 1's can bring in series that are not collected by date/mint in pop1 status: such is the fate of the long
liberty gold series. The 1908-s was in a popular and completeable set. The last 2 coins were basically type coins with many more people needing them. Pop 1 - "P" mint gold imo is certainly very underrated and also very unexciting. No much different than pop 1 P mint Barbers. Tuff for me to get excited about pop 1 Barbers when proofs readily exist. Branch mints are much more juicy imo.
But proof gold is certainly no common when compared to proof Barbers.
Why the 1883-S didn't bring more does escape me. But $35-40K for a pop 1 seems ok to me. As a MS67 it should have brought $70-75K which would have placed it in the same range as equivalently rare seated quarters/halves that the only decent UNC's that exist are in superb gem. Even with great eye appeal the coin may have been a borderline MS66. I didn't see it though. I might also add that PCGS at times is pretty liberal with the MS68 grade on gold....seemingly much easier than on silver coins. I've seen a number of MS67 and 68 PCGS Liberty gold and at times I think they are too easy and lenient because it is "gold." NGC is the same if not more lenient.
You made some good points though. Would be interesting to hear
Mr. Taylor's view of his auction experience. Heck, I'd pay $50 to hear it.
roadrunner
I think the way you handled the situation with the coin I bought was exemplary.
Doug Wright
Thanks for explaining better than I could.
Pat
RR
If Greg and his folks had NOT spent the 4 hours to try to figure this out, would you then have accused them of being indifferent to their clients (consignors and bidders) and being too god for the little guy?
Short of being perfect (according to your notion of it), is there anyway that Heritage could have satisfied your sensibilities?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Petulance and ranting on a forum such as this goes a very short way to making a real difference to resolving most real problems.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Since you seem so eager to ram your ideas onto him, why don't you give us a sample of your business qualifications? It takes much more than just being a retail consumer to run a highly successful business.
I am certain many of us would love the chance to subject you to a real voire dire session.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Hello, Morgan Nut 2. I had a similar experience with Heritage many years ago. My problem was a coin that I felt was overgraded for the slab, and they didn't want to take it back. They said that it was past two weeks, which they said was their refund period. I replied that I had told their salesman I was traveling and needed a month and he had agreed. Their response was essentially: "Not in writing; tough ghunuggies."
The issue was finally resolved when I pointed out that they were displaying a PNG symbol; PNG required a 30-day money back return privilege and I would write to PNG if they didn't honor a 30-day return privilege. After -- and only after -- I put that pressure on them, did they agree to take the coin back.
To me, that's not the way to do business. I don't like to deal with people where I have to get every little detail in writing in advance. I don't like to deal with people where I think I have to keep my hand on my wallet all the time. I prefer to deal with people whose word is their bond.
Even if their salesman had been sloppy and hadn't made the appropriate notation, my point was reasonable. A refund from a firm that truly cared about their smaller customers should have been immediate and automatic.
Anyway, since then I've never again dealt directly with Heritage. When I've wanted a Heritage coin, I've bought through dealers like Warren Mills (Rare Coins of New Hampshire) or Mitch Spivack (Mr. Wondercoin) who have great eyes; will vet the coins for me; and have enough clout that Heritage will treat them with respect. It costs me an extra vigorish, but it's worth it.
Welcome Proof: I don't think that being "too big" is the problem. Being big gives them the means and resources to take proper care of their customers. To me the problem is that they don't have a burning desire to do right by their customers -- unless they are forced to, as did Mr. WindyCity. Yes, under intense pressure from his thread, they made good to him. But what about next time when the intense pressure is lacking? Is that not a valid question to ask?
I note that down below Greg Rohan, the President of Heritage, quoted their contract. The clause cited, as I read it, gives Heritage the right to cancel your winning bid for any reason at all or even none.
"Auctioneer reserves the right to rescind the sale in the event of nonpayment, breach of a warranty, disputed ownership, auctioneer's clerical error or omission in exercising bids and reserves, or otherwise." (emphasis added)
The first four clauses are perfectly reasonable. But that last one is the killer: it's carte blanche for them. Essentially it says bidding at their auctions is a one way street: Your bid is binding on you, but NOT BINDING ON THEM. This is a fair and reasonable? For shame! I'll comment on this more when I respond to Mr. Rohan's letter.
Hi there Mr. Leo the Lyon. Yes, the photography must be quite a challenge for them. But I've actually found their photography pretty satisfactory myself. They have this thing where you can blow things up and get a closer look and that's really, really helpful to me.
Thank you, Steve. Yes, part of their problem is public relations. In a thread about customer satisfaction, it amazes me that their president would trot out a contract clause which to all appearances makes your bid a one-way street: Binding on you, not on them.
But in my opinion, it's more than public relations. To me, the root problem is that they lack a burning desire to do right by their customers -- unless they have to.
Dear Mr. Wondercoin: You're great and our occasional spats notwithstanding, I love you dearly and know how much you've contributed to my 23 (?) best-ever Registry Sets, including the Standing Liberty Quarters.
But surely you realize that your wonderful experience with Heritage is atypical. You're a major player. You deserve V.I.P. treatment -- and get it.
I'm sure you've read the original thread and saw that the experience of buying from Heritage is much different for the small-time collectors than for the big fish like you.
I'm sure there were two sides to many of the complaints from the original thread, but most seemed reasonable to me and I assume to you too. And when a customer has a reasonable complaint, in my considered opinion it's good business to meet them half way and if need be, more than half way. You've certainly done that with me. But it seems obvious to me from the volume and intensity of complaints in the original Windy City thread, that this is not the Heritage policy.
I gotta go now. Gotta shower, eat breakfast, and get ready for work -- yes, even on Sunday. Heritage has too many great coins coming up for auction that I lust after. I gotta earn money.
Just Having Fun
OK RBinTex- you're on. Email me at Greg@HeritageGalleries.com with your contact info and we will meet.
Greg
President
HERITAGE AUCTIONS
3500 Maple Avenue
Dallas, Texas 75219-3941
Phone: 214-528-3500 / Private fax: 214-409-1596
Email to: Greg@HA.com
<< <i>
Auctioneer reserves the right to rescind the sale in the event of nonpayment, breach of a warranty, disputed ownership, auctioneer's clerical error or omission in exercising bids and reserves, or otherwise.
This forum seems to be nice place for some people (not WindyCity who is a first class guy in my book) to throw out random attacks on us while hiding behind the anonymity of a username. You certainly have every right to do so, but if you truly want to resolve your problem I invite you to email me directly to Greg@HeritageGalleries.com and let me see if I or someone on our staff can either fix your problem or explain why we did what we did. Even though I'd love to, in the litigious society in which we live in we won't get into a public debate on a Forum with anyone about their business dealings with us, even to defend ourselves when we are confident in the fairness and reasonableness of our position.
Thank you all for your input.
Sincerely,
Greg Rohan
q]
That rule was reserved in my case. My bid was not exercized by Heritage, and the lot sold for a lower price. I did contact Heritage, and they did arrange to get the coin back, and then offered to sell it to me at my maximum bid+15%. I wasn't real happy about that and declined the offer, but was less happy about them not agreeing to make the seller whole. Good to hear that they feel confident in their fairness and reasonableness, but I won't be selling any coins through them anytime soon. They have some growing pains to get over.
I did end up with a nice apology letter and a coupon for a discount for my next auction purchase. It's sitting around here somewhere...
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
So where are we at now? A few members are still unhappy with what went down and rightly so but nobody's perfect whether someone was dragging their feet or word just didn't get around fast enough, mistakes happen! We all make mistakes and hopefully we can learn from them by making the neccesary improvements so they don't happen again. And we all know there's no such thing as a perfect system. Digging in the past doesn't really help matters either. We all need to learn to deal with it as best as we can until you have received a satisfactory answer and then move on. But that's not going to happen everytime!
It happened right here, it was dealt with, whether privately or publicly, to someone's satisfaction or not, that's life, deal with it as best as you can!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i><STRONG>"...is there anyway that Heritage could have satisfied your sensibilities?..."
</STRONG>Of course. Seems academic now, but as i said, they could have (literally) simply sold the coin to the bidder for the high bid & sent the consignor the amount of the reserve & KEPT THEIR MOUTHS SHUT ABOUT <STRONG>THEIR</STRONG> MISTAKE!
Everyone would've been MORE than happy and this thread would have NEVER even been given a life.
BTW, Greg can meet me ANYTIME in Dalls HE chooses to so I can tell him how he can improve HIS business - or is he too arrogant to listen?
I'll resist the temptation to say "its time to put up or shut up." Kudos to Greg.
----Lloyd
Perhaps that's the point?
<< <i>OK RBinTex- you're on. Email me at Greg@HeritageGalleries.com with your contact info and we will meet.
Greg >>
Greg,
Did you get an eMail yet?
Russ, NCNE
Greg >>
Greg,
Did you get an eMail yet?
Russ, NCNE
====================
Yes
President
HERITAGE AUCTIONS
3500 Maple Avenue
Dallas, Texas 75219-3941
Phone: 214-528-3500 / Private fax: 214-409-1596
Email to: Greg@HA.com
Heritage Photo's
My Photo's
Did you get an eMail yet?"
He SURE did. I'm ready to have a cup of jo @ starbux & talk ANYTIME
monsterman
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
On the other hand, I do believe the timing of when certain lots "go off" can influence the final hammer price. Dealers and collectors are more likely to simply "leave bids" on late night or early morning lots and perhaps if the lot was auctioned off more "prime time" that dealer or collector may have "stretched" in the heat of the moment.
I personally think some other auction houses depend upon the floor bidding and "head count" of live floor bidders much more than Heritage does. Perhaps Greg can comment on what % of Signature Sale lots are sold the day before the auction (I believe it is a fairly high %). I know that many dealers are also comfortable "leaving bids" with Heritage as well.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Proof - "500" vs "12" probably would matter, but, for most auction sessions at Heritage (especially non-Platinum night sessions) attendees are not all that relevant IMHO. But, I did point out in my last post how very late night lots could potentially result in a lower price realized through bids being "left" rather than executed by live floor bidders (your point?). And, my experience with Platinum night is large attendance has resulted in "runaway prices" at times (but, of course, only a small fraction of the lots can be placed on Platinum night in any event).
Another twist - it has been suggested to me that perhaps the single most important factor in whether a "room of bidders" occurs is whether the great collections are being auctioned off totally without a reserve vs. with reserves (that's nice, but,I still NEVER will suggest my customers to place their coins in an auction unreserved absent extraordinary circumstances). In the former (no reserves), it is suggested the room can be packed with bargain hunters (an example given to me: when the Picasso family auctioned off its paintings with no reserves and it resulted in enormous attendance). Serve a GREAT MEAL complimentary and watch how many folks enter the auction room as well
This discussion is a bit OT - so, I will not comment again unless the thread heads in this direction.
Wondercoin
>>>Sent an email to Heritage on 01/23 about returning a 1957 PCGS PR68 CAM Franklin I purchased from them. The holder has major scratches on both sides and the Obverse has spots on it as you see on my pictures below. No reply from Heritage as of yet? Lee
Heritage Photo's>>>>
i thought that was a pcgs problem as they are the ones that graded it......and with no ncs program....i think the collector is left out in the rain....there are numerous coins that are decaying for one reason or another....and imho collectors have to lean on pcgs to do their part to preserve our coins for the next generation
monsterman
ps....to answer rebutals in advance...some coins are beyond help...and some have just begun to need conservation and all coins need to be judged on a case by case basis....and yes conservation can help a coin grade higher.....and also lower
out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
Thanks for providing your valued opinion on my Franklin! I was seriously considering sending it to PCGS but I thought I would give Heritage a final shot at a return. I would have been ok with Heritage saying sorry Lee but you own it. That's the way it goes buying sight unseen sometimes. Then on to PCGS for their opinion. Thanks Again, Lee
My complaint with Heritage has to do with their photography. When I consigned 30 PCGS PR Jeffersons and one MS to a Bullet Sale last year, I was told by the individual handling my consignment that I could not use my own photos for the sale. Now granted, I could have enhanced the coins with software (which I don't know how to do let alone have) but if I did do this, it would be readily apparent as soon as they were received by Heritage. If I had taken shots only of the coin and not the full holder, I can see them refusing to use them. And has been mentioned, if I knew I could call and request better pics be taken of my coins, I would have done so. But I didn't know so I didn't ask because I expected accurate imaging. But when I saw for the first time what they looked like, I all but had a heart attack---you know the feeling, where your heart starts beating faster, you feel frozen in place and can't breathe. No lie! I still cannot bring myself to look at most of them in the archives as they for the most part, look MS instead of PRs, Cams and Dcams.
As a side, I think the lighting options is nothing more then a gimmick to avoid the real problem---not just inadequate or mediocre, but BAD pictures! One still doesn't know what the coin really looks like regarding color and/or luster. And the increased magnification gimmick only works up to a point as the closer you go, the more blurred the coins surface gets. Doesn't do any good to use it!
So, to Greg (if you're still reading this thread) I ask this. Why not allow consignors to offer their own pictures? If they don't meet with pre-determined controls, you have the right to forego them and place your own. Only compact flash discs accepted for ease of downloading. I could have easily provided Heritage with this and I do feel I lost money simply because of the lack of quality and care given to accurately depicting my coins. If you wish to see for yourself, just PM me and I'll give you the lot numbers.
If allowing a consignor to submit their own pictures and they meet with your criteria, why then not allow it? Wouldn't it be better for the consignor, better for you, better for the buyer? It would certainly go a long way to taking this part of the auction off your shoulders and the bad reputation Heritage has acquired. I know I'll never sell any of my coins thru Heritage again unless this is allowed.
JM2CW
I know this is just from one little guys excursion into the Heritage auctions consignor side of things but I can't speak for other aspects
with anything close to facts. With my case, I can.