Basic card set for modern players SPORTFLICS

boggs301012

in a basic set? I checked about a dozen sets and none have them. A rude collector in my eyes requested they be added to the Boggs basic set. At the least you should have polled other collectors or ask them. You are new to the Boggs set and yet you have no regards to others that have been building the set. Other cards have been added in the past and I email any and all when they provide an email and ask their opinions!

Other basic set collectors do you think this rude collector should have ask ? And would you have asked others as a COUTESY befor just requesting them?


And yes I am a littel pissed. And have email PSA and requested the removal.



James

mikeschmidt

I think they should be in - as they were widely distributed, cheaply available and very much collected. That being said - they aren't very popular in retrospect, it appears.

I would furthermore say that it is generally stupid for any player set collectors to get in pissing matches with other player set collectors. There are precious few of us that are that into the hobby - why not try and find ground to compromise. Even if you don't agree - the spirit of discussion and talk will serve the collective interest best.

boggs301012

Befor it is said I own 2 sportflics that are grade I didnt submitt them nor did I buy them off ebay. A board memeber submitted them in a group and I bought them . Half of my point is there was 0 comminucation on the other collectors part.

cardfan07

Well, from past experience...working with fellow player collectors should be the norm. Which cards to include, the weights, etc all should have input from as many involved.
There was a change to the Johnny Bench master set, based on some work done by 2 of the top guys, with feedback from about half of the participants. The set currently stands at 150 cards and is sure to grow, but I think we've done a decent job baselining the set. But I will continue to request cards, without feedback of the group, now that we've done this.

JonB

They are in the Nolan Ryan basic set.

RipublicaninMass

Boggsy, just ask for the herald stamp you spend 2 years waiting to grade, I mean find, added to the set! Poetic justice!




H E H

boggs301012

<< <i>Well, from past experience...working with fellow player collectors should be the norm. >>

I agree 100% Just yesterday I pm'ed a collector and mentioned the Boggs basic had holes that I left open on purpose so other collectors could add them in years to come. So they could contibute to the set.

Nolay Ryan does have them I just looked but that is the 1st I have seen I searched 20 others and they do not.


James

jimtb

Boggs, in my opinion, I don't like them in the basic. But we voted and they're in the Trammell set. I'm guessing it was a mistake and PSA forgot to consult with you. Normally they're pretty good about that with player sets.

baberuthfan2002

baberuthfan2002

I agree with Boggs also. Out of respect for the other members building sets, it should be requested or at least voted on what cards should be or not be added. It makes it more complicated for those who have been building up their sets for awhile, almost completed and now have to add generic cards that are in my opinion, pretty worthless. Only 1 set (Nolan Ryan) has this kind of card added to the set. So they aren't very popular, it seems.


Boggs,

I agree with RipublicaninMass, that stamp is deathly....

boggs301012

I am tempted to add the stamp I found 2 more bought one the other was very OC. I am waiting for my grades on the stamps BTW. GOOD MEMORY!!! True PSA usualy emaisl me as a courtesy. I am more calm now....ohhhmmmmm ohhhmmmmm


James

jimtb

BabeRuthFan,
You need to change your icon. Angela Jolie keeps distracting me from reading the posts.

imafishinnut

I am the "rude" collector that Boggs is talking about. As far as I am concerned they are a valid addition because they are included in other basic player sets. I am sorry if Boggs disagrees with my request for added the cards; however, I am unaware of any ESTABLISHED procedure (e.g., in the Set Registry rules) for deciding what should be added to the basic sets. I wouldn't have minded having it put to a vote; however, I still unaware of any procedure that has been established for putting it to a vote. Are we supposed to be doing via email? Via the message board? My opinion was that if they were not considered valid for basic sets, they wouldn't have been in any of the other basic sets.

IMO, this is exactly why PSA needs to establish the list of cards instead of the player set collectors themselves. It is always going to come to down to somebody wanting them added, somebody not wanting them added, and somebody getting upset because they were or were not added. If PSA makes the decision, there is no argument.

Boggs -- I did not appreciate your email. I feel like you attacked me in the email and here without first giving me a chance to explain my side of the story. If you had sent me a courteous email indicating that I should have considered polling the other collectors first as that is the generally accepted procedure (if that is the generally accepted procedure), I would have had no problem working on getting a poll done and helping you get the cards removed from the set if that was what everyone decided. However, you start off by calling me "rude" and insulting me. At this point, I have no desire to help you.

Sincerely,
Mike Poe

imafishinnut

For those of you who don't see him attacking me here, I doesn't take anyone with half of a brain to figure out who requested the additions of the Sportflics by looking at the sets. Therefore, although he may not be attacking me here in plain sight, he is indirectly attacking me here. Communication is a two-way street. If he had communicated with me before attacking me, this whole thing would have been a non-issue.

Sincerely,
Mike Poe

boggs301012

Attack , no ...Yes you were rude and still are. I have emailed you in the past you don't repond. You never have helped me and I don't want any help from you. I should have contacted you prior to you adding them? How DID I know you were going to add them? COMMUNICATION is what I ask for.
And the email said the same thing I said here. I didnt call you names threaten you or even YELL AT ALL.

HEH!

<< <i>If he had communicated with me before attacking me, this whole thing would have been a non-issue. >>



Anyone want the lottery #'s

imafishinnut

IMO, call somebody rude is attacking them. I take offense to be called rude as I pride myself in not being rude. I didn't say that you should have contacted me before the fact, but rather after the fact in a courteous manner. Here is your exact email:

> I think as a courtesy you could ask fellow collectors to add odd balls like sportflics I have requested that they be removed and have spoke > to other Boggs basis collectors that want no part. Very rude on your part not to ask or atleast see if we are intrested in them.

> James Miles

IMO, that is not a courteous email. There was no reason to call me rude here or in the email. With regard to not responding to your other emails, I have two kids including an eight month old and have 100 other things going on in my life right now. Therefore, I don't get the time to respond to every email that is sent to me. On average I get approximately 50 emails a day. I physically can't respond to everyone of them.

Sincerely,
Mike Poe

boggs301012

BEFOR YOU POSTED HERE I EMAILED AND APOLOGIZED FOR MY TONE.....short memory?



James

imafishinnut

James,

I posted here before reading your email. Thank you for your apology in the email. I am sorry if I have offended you with the way I have handled this, but I really felt like I was being attacked without justification. Lets work together to establish a protocal for additions in the Boggs basic set (e.g., either email or a Wade Boggs thread like the Nolan Ryan thread). I am willing to have the Sportflics removed and will assist you if PSA questions the removal.

Sincerely,
Mike

NickM

On an issue like Sportflics, PSA should set a standard for whether it should be added, since the question is relevant to dozens of basic player sets. This question should not really be on a set-by-set basis.

Nick

boggs301012

Nick I agree. PERSONALY I have a strong dislike for them. PSA needs some guildlines as Mr Poe has stated.


James

Fabfrank

First off, both Boggsy and Mike are good guys, so it's dissappointing to see them arguing like this. (They'll probably attack me now)
But I think this issue has been put to rest.
NickM said On an issue like Sportflics, PSA should set a standard for whether it should be added

and PSa has. I read in another thread that PSA has decided that any card that was pack issued on a national basis will be included in all basic and (obviously) master sets. Sportsflics were issued this way, but it seems PSA has not caught up with updating all sets this would impact. Wheteher Mike (fishinnut) requested it or not, these cards would eventually have been added.

boggs301012

Me and Mr Poe are good were talking in private. The head butting is over with. And thanks FABFRANK .

Axtell

I don't know where I weigh on in this.

Working on the basic set (aprrox. 20% complete), it's tough road to walk...just don't want to see the basic set spiral out of control and become a monstrosity.

Since there are so few of us Boggs basic set collectiors, I think a simple post with a poll asking 'should so-and-so card be added' or even a short email to all 6 of us would have been nice.

boggs301012

PM sent with a list. I want to include every one that has a set up at PSA. We all count!!!!!

phreakydancin

To be fair to Mike, I recently did something similar, and I wasn't aware that there was an established protocol for adding cards to a set either. Being a newbie, I put in a request to PSA to have a card added to the Pele Master set. Cosetta listened to my rationale and polled the other Pele collectors whether they wanted the card (and one other) added to the set. Everyone agreed; the cards were added; case closed. I never had any contact with any of the other collectors, nor did I know that I was supposed to.

jimtb

Cosetta is the best when it comes to things like this. She get the needed input from all parties.
Jim

Axtell

Thinking more about this...Sportsflics should be included. They were widely available in pack form nationally.

boggs301012

True but they are read headed step children for most collectors.

cardfan07

Depending on the group of people involved, working together works just fine. There will always be disagreements over which make it in and what they might count for weights. In my experience, PSA staff or member of the group picked up the reigns and got the info necessary to make a decision.
There is no clear cut protocol. To be honest, I shouldn't have to ask fellow members when I want a card added. It sometimes makes sense when the line is gray.
Just my 2¢

Ryan

NickM

For the most part, Master Sets should be simple - if PSA grades it, it's included. The only reason I see for exceptions is when a relatively unimportant set of a certain player would end up dominating the Master Set (or at least comprising far too high a percentage of it) - examples include the Johnny Bench decks of cards, the Pacific 330 card Nolan Ryan sets, the Ted Williams 1959 Fleer set (which are not junk, but would make up 3/4 of the Williams Master Set). The tough question IMO on the Master Set is cards which do not feature the player's name, but show his picture (like many Topps checklists from the 1960s).

On a Basic Set, PSA's guidelines should handle almost every question - perhaps separating white letter and yellow letter variations ('58 Topps, '69 Topps) or other recognized variations of the same card ('74 McCovey Washington Nat'l) would be advisable for the Basic Set, or inclusion of multiple cards of a player from one set if he appeared in different uniforms in different series (but both were part of the base set and not a subset).

The area where PSA should ask for collector advice in set composition has to do with special sets - like All-Time Greats.

Set weights should also involve collector input, but that's a different story.

Nick

phreakydancin

In my case, the question was whether to allow cards that were made after Pele's play years. But since there was already one card in the set from after his retirement, it made sense to allow two more.

Robby

Fellow Set Player Registry Members .........I to , have requested that a card be added to a Master Player Set , and never thought to contact the other set members ! It says at the top of most Player set registry's " This set is a work in progress and if you have a card that is not listed , please contact Psa to have it put in ". This statement is not exactly verbatim , but pretty close ! Of course , I can imagine , that more Modern players with hundreds of cards can be very frustrating to try and keep up with each new additions , which is one reason , why I'll never attempt to Registry a Player Set with that many cards ! I admire those of you that do try to assembly these Monter Set's like the Ryan - Boggs - Schmidt , etc. ! Glad to see you guy's settle this like two sensible adults should !!!!! Now if I were to request a change in the weight formula for a card already in the set , then I think it should be discussed and voted on by all set members ! My two cents worth !............. Robbie

Twinsthreepeat

Here's a twist.

I think that most will agree that a card issued in a pack with a wide distribution should be considered a "basic" card. So why then aren't Leaf and OPC considered "Basic". Yes I realize that is just a copy of the parent companies card. But they had there own packs and were widely distributed.

Fabfrank

So why then aren't Leaf and OPC considered "Basic

Because they were not distributed on a national (read U.S.) basis. The Leaf and OPC that you are referring to were distributed in Canada, thus not fitting into the "Widely distributed" category

boggs301012

Topps Chrome is A U.S. Release it mirrors regular topps should they be added? And leaf after 1990 was a U.S. release and is diffrent then the DR counterpart.

Fabfrank

Topps Chrome is A U.S. Release it mirrors regular topps should they be added? And leaf after 1990 was a U.S. release and is diffrent then the DR counterpart.

As long as they were issued in pack form on a national basis, if they are not in the basic set now, they will be. I don't know about Chrome, but the US Leaf product distributed after 1990 should be part of Basic sets. My opinion.

Axtell

I think any card that is a mirror of the 'basic' national set or ANY insert should be excluded from the basic set.

If you want all that insert and specialty stuff, go for a master set.

I think the basic regular releases of:

Bowman
Donruss
Flair
Fleer
Leaf (1990+ when it became a different set from Donruss)
Stadium Club
SP
Topps
Upper Deck

should be the only ones listed...when you start getting into specialty, insert, or mirror/parallel cards, you walk a slipperly slope that devolves into a mess that shouldn't be touched with a basic set.

Fabfrank

Axtell- I agree. If it is an insert, or parallel card it should be in the master set. Base cards of the set should be in the basic set. Man, that sounds so obviously redundant

krunchtyme

Shouldn't all, non-insert and the like, cards that were nationally issued in major sets (of the time period) and were and are readily available, be included in the players basic set, even if they aren't the nicest card? Or should they just be included in the Master set?

I will immediately e-mail everyone on the Emmitt Smith registry, that accepts e-mail, and inform them of the additional requests I have made to the Emmitt Smith Master Set. I definitely did not mean to offend anyone on that set and and very happy I read this post!

Isn't the point of collecting a player to get all the cards of that player, or atleast the ones you want, not to complete a registry listing?

I think adding new cards that are available is great, it gives me more to shoot for of my favorite players.

Boggs not to be disrespectful, but what about a Boggs Topps Issue Set or Boggs Donruss issues set, etc.. I saw that somebody has requested that for Jerry Rice.

boggs301012

For the guys collecting Boggs 1990 Leaf later will be added, Chrome will be removed. Sportflics removed..all the fleer UD, score etc....missing will be added Finest will stay. Here is what will be added so far I dont think I made any errors I hope not took some time. Still 2 outstanding votes.

And a topps only set sounds nice. Maybe ..Maybe add A.S. cards? (worms opened)




1998 182 UD SP Wade Boggs

1998 Fleer 121 Wade Boggs



129 1991 BOWMAN
178 1991 DONRUSS
273 1991 LEAF
399 1993 BOWMAN
285 1993 LEAF
134 1993 STADIUM CLUB
36 1994 DONRUSS
257 1994 LEAF
101 1994 SCORE
349 1994 STADIUM CLUB
112 1994 UPPER DECK
408 1995 BOWMAN
355 1995 DONRUSS
67 1995 FLEER
40 1995 LEAF
85 1995 STADIUM CLUB
445 1995 UPPER DECK
26 1996 BOWMAN
355 1996 DONRUSS
91 1996 LEAF
345 1996 SCORE

17 1997 DONRUSS
161 1997 FLEER
1 1997 LEAF
167 1997 SCORE
129 1997 SP
217 1997 STADIUM CLUB
125 1997 UPPER DECK
249 1998 BOWMAN
171 1998 UPPER DECK
10 1999 STADIUM CLUB
210 1999 UPPER DECK

jimtb

Axtell,
I like your set a lot, I would even drop Flair. However, according to the "nationally released in packs" idea, we have to include Ultra, Sportsfliccs, Studio, Collectors Choice, SP, Select, Pinnacle, Studio, and Emotion. I don't consider these "basic" cards.
Jim

Axtell

I'd vote NO on any additional (all-star, league leader, etc.) cards.

The basic set should be simply that: basic.

boggs301012

A TOPPS only set with maybe AS cards. I figured if you have a basic set complete you have all the regular cards. Why not add the As cards. To a topps only set. Just an idea.


James

Axtell

I'd say that the AS cards=insert cards. Yes they are more widely available, but I don't like the idea of them in the basic set.

boggs301012

<< <i>I'd say that the AS cards=insert cards. Yes they are more widely available, but I don't like the idea of them in the basic set. >>



I agree but for a topps only I think it would be nice.

imafishinnut

I agree that the All-Star cards should be only in the Master Set. The basic set should be limited to only the most important card from each set. The most important card is the main player card. If you open the door to All-Star cards, then you open the door to other less important cards (e.g., Diamond Kings, etc.)

IMO, anyone should be able to request addition of any card/stamp/disc from a player's playing years to the Master Set without contacting the other collectors. The only time a collector should poll the other collectors regarding the Master Set is when it comes to the addition of speciality sets like the Nolan Ryan Pacific, the Ted Williams Fleer, etc. or with regard to the weights of unique items such as stamps, discs and the like. Otherwise, the Master set should include anything and everything that anybody can find.

Mike

imafishinnut

With regard to the list of the Boggs Basic Set cards, that list looks good to me. The list that I sent to you, James, should have been complete. If you incorporated my list into your list, I think we should have everything. Right now, I am not sure if all of these cards can be added because I don't think they have all been graded to date. PSA can't add a card until one is graded due to some limitations of their system. The Sportflics and Chrome will be relegated to the Master Set which is also fine with me.

Mike

boggs301012

I dont know If I am confusing everyone but I dont want the AS in the basic set. I would want them in a topps only set. As far as the master set it is a free for all, its graded add it. Don't worry all of those cards will be graded in a months time. It takes the staff 3 months to add anything. (not a poke at them)

It seems like we all agree. I have just sent an email to Mrs Kean. The same list I provided in the thread. Thanks Mr Poe for your help and Brian.


James

imafishinnut

You were confusing me, but that is not real hard sometimes... I wouldn't have a problem including all Topps regular issue cards (e.g., All-Stars, Record Breakers, Team Cards, etc.) in a Topps player set. It would increase the overall size of the set, but I think it would be fun to have all the Topps cards.

Mike

theplasticman

Im pretty sure the standard in a Basic set is to include the main regular card (from a pack issued release) in the Basic and not any subset cards or parallels. Sportflics IMO fit within those guidelines.