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Am I overreacting?
SOM
Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭
Here is recent corrrespondence between an eBay seller and me. I'm too close to this to deal with it clearly. Please give me your advice and opinion.
My original email:
Friends:
I am terribly disappointed in these two vending boxes that I received from you today.
Please understand that I am not a pain-in-the-you-know-what; check my eBay feedback, and you will see that I'm pretty straight-up. But you guys sent me 1,000 of the most terribly miscut, dinged, diamond-cut, off-centered cards that Topps could possibly produce! It must have taken a lot of effort to even find 1,000 cards of this magnitude of ugliness. The cards are not, as you declared in the auction, MINT at all. Not even close.
I perfectly understood that your auction stated that the stars had been pulled. I have no issue with the players you sent me. But, my heavens...I expected to find maybe 20, maybe 30 cards out of the 1,000 commons to submit to PSA. But there are NONE! I was flabbergasted as I pored through the bunch.
If this is the same type of product that I can expect from the vending box I purchased from you the other day, then please cancel that order and refund my money. And as for these cards, I would like an explanation as to why I was sent such a lousy product...and what you can do for me
Thanks!
The response:
what i sold you is what i get from my vendors. all i did was pull the stars and then sell the box as i get it. i did not assemble a lot of a 1,000 cards that were junk. those cards were exactly as stated in the auction. i can't control the centering or surface. i am merely passing on what i received. i'm sorry your disappointed, but i did sell you what was stated. if you are looking for PSA 10's, they won't be in those boxes.
I replied:
I am sorry, but those cards are not accurately described in your listings. They are not "MINT commons and stars, with the key cards pulled." They are "what's left after all of the potentially gradeable cards are pulled." That is a huge difference. And had I known that, I would have not bid in the first place.
I have been a solid, good-paying customer of yours for many years now. But I feel lousy about these 2 transactions (and, most likely, the vending box that is on its way to me).
And the final response:
those cards are MINT. i don't know what else i can tell you. i sell a bunch of these vending lots and have yet to receive a complaint about them.
that description is completely accurate. i get the box, take what i want, sell the rest. the cards are MINT and contain commons and minor stars. all i pull are the cards i feel that i can grade. nothing more, nothing less. if you are looking for 9's and 10's, then you need to buy a sealed box, direct from the factory.
i hate to lose your business, but there is no refund on these vending boxes.
Help!
My original email:
Friends:
I am terribly disappointed in these two vending boxes that I received from you today.
Please understand that I am not a pain-in-the-you-know-what; check my eBay feedback, and you will see that I'm pretty straight-up. But you guys sent me 1,000 of the most terribly miscut, dinged, diamond-cut, off-centered cards that Topps could possibly produce! It must have taken a lot of effort to even find 1,000 cards of this magnitude of ugliness. The cards are not, as you declared in the auction, MINT at all. Not even close.
I perfectly understood that your auction stated that the stars had been pulled. I have no issue with the players you sent me. But, my heavens...I expected to find maybe 20, maybe 30 cards out of the 1,000 commons to submit to PSA. But there are NONE! I was flabbergasted as I pored through the bunch.
If this is the same type of product that I can expect from the vending box I purchased from you the other day, then please cancel that order and refund my money. And as for these cards, I would like an explanation as to why I was sent such a lousy product...and what you can do for me
Thanks!
The response:
what i sold you is what i get from my vendors. all i did was pull the stars and then sell the box as i get it. i did not assemble a lot of a 1,000 cards that were junk. those cards were exactly as stated in the auction. i can't control the centering or surface. i am merely passing on what i received. i'm sorry your disappointed, but i did sell you what was stated. if you are looking for PSA 10's, they won't be in those boxes.
I replied:
I am sorry, but those cards are not accurately described in your listings. They are not "MINT commons and stars, with the key cards pulled." They are "what's left after all of the potentially gradeable cards are pulled." That is a huge difference. And had I known that, I would have not bid in the first place.
I have been a solid, good-paying customer of yours for many years now. But I feel lousy about these 2 transactions (and, most likely, the vending box that is on its way to me).
And the final response:
those cards are MINT. i don't know what else i can tell you. i sell a bunch of these vending lots and have yet to receive a complaint about them.
that description is completely accurate. i get the box, take what i want, sell the rest. the cards are MINT and contain commons and minor stars. all i pull are the cards i feel that i can grade. nothing more, nothing less. if you are looking for 9's and 10's, then you need to buy a sealed box, direct from the factory.
i hate to lose your business, but there is no refund on these vending boxes.
Help!
0
Comments
sorry this happened to you. I also hope you didnt take a big hit. I know how you feel. Happens to us all in some way.
Steve
As long as you are asking for advice and opinions, I'll be happy to offer mine:
You fought the wrong battle - you made the issue a definition of mint when, I suspect, the issue was you weren't happy and wanted your money back.
Your first email started off innocently enough, hat in hand so to speak, but that hat quickly became a bat that you used to bash your "friends" heads in with. Granted, the seller failed to see the larger point, but it's not always the best policy to back someone into a corner when negotiating - it impairs their vision.
Again, real sorry this has played out this way.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
If I was you I would not do anymore bussiness with this guy.....just my opinion.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
I sold a card two months ago. I promised in the description that it would get at least a psa 7... it got a 6...
so I have offered him a full refund plus his shipping and grading fee...
I am not rich, nor am I in business... just sell once in a while...
I think everyone should stand behind what they say in their description. It's the basis of trust - and the right thing to do.
I understand why you didn't want to post the name of the seller... but I sure would like to know so that I could avoid him.
Click here to view my Knickstars collection and wantlist
Regarding vendor boxes..I wonder if it might be better to pay with a credit card. Many companies will stand behind the buyer in cases like this. And, yes, please name the seller.
Please name the seller so the rest of us won't have to go through this. Afterall, isn't that what these boards are all about?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=70387&item=5160183078&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
then I'd have a problem - the 6 cards he showed are perfectly centered and looks minimum PSA 8 quality.
Mint cards do not have surface issues. With the exception of print defects, vending box cards do not have surface defects. And if corners are dinged, it's because the box was not handled carefully at some point, and the damage should be fairly uniform throughout the box - and on the same corner.
It sounds like you bought refilled boxes, not cherrypicked boxes.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
<< <i>There is a big difference between pulling the stars and pulling the gradeable cards from the box. >>
Yeah, exactly. If the auction says he pulls the stars, there should be gradable cards still left among the 1000, especially since he says the remaining cards are "MINT". But then in his e-mail, he says he pulls all the gradable cards. If that's the cause, then his auction is a blatant fraud.
Tabe
Therefore, he must die!
<< <i>
those cards are MINT.
if you are looking for 9's and 10's, then you need to buy a sealed box, direct from the factory.
>>
That's weird. I was under the impression that 9s and 10s were MINT.
Working on 56T BB and 80T BB
Looking to trade blocks of BB graded commons for other blocks of BB commons
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/sinibobcards/othersets/3205
https://www.ebay.com/sch/sinibobsystems/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=
<< <i>I had this same EXACT experience 2 months ago. Are the problems you are having with newenglandsportscards? I bought a vending box with the SAME "Stars have been pulled " description in the auction. Was the worst centered filth I have ever seen. Almost EVERY card in the box. I did not complain, I shook it off as getting beat by a misleading seller who I will never purchase from again. I gave neutral feedback which stated .... "horrible cards, I took a bath, live and learn won't buy again" >>
newenglandsportscards is 4_sharp_corners.
<< <i>
<< <i>I had this same EXACT experience 2 months ago. Are the problems you are having with newenglandsportscards? I bought a vending box with the SAME "Stars have been pulled " description in the auction. Was the worst centered filth I have ever seen. Almost EVERY card in the box. I did not complain, I shook it off as getting beat by a misleading seller who I will never purchase from again. I gave neutral feedback which stated .... "horrible cards, I took a bath, live and learn won't buy again" >>
newenglandsportscards is 4_sharp_corners. >>
Awesome first post!
Id send the stuff back asking for a refund and then if nothing happens, leave the -FB
http://www.clark22murray33.com
<< <i>newenglandsportscards is 4_sharp_corners. >>
Really? I did not know that - I guess knowing that explains why there were no gradeable cards left.
<< <i>
<< <i>newenglandsportscards is 4_sharp_corners. >>
Can anyone confirm this?
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
newenglandsportscards
As this thread indicates, we sell some of our raw inventory under ebay user id newenglandsportscards. I am responding to this thread because I think what is being said here is both untrue and unfair. I personally went through the 1983 Topps Baseball vending boxes in question and pulled the star cards. As common PSA 9s from this set regularly sell in the $2-$3 range (needless to say a level that is less than our grading fee) and common PSA 10s from this set regularly sell in the $5-$10 range (a level at or slightly above our grading fee) I did not pull any commons for grading. While the person that works for me did not explain this as well as I might have liked, those are the facts.
The buyer of these vending boxes asserts that there were no gradeable (i.e. PSA 9) commons out of two vending boxes. Having reviewed these cards myself, for the buyer to say he got no PSA 9-quality cards out of those 1000 vending commons is simply not true. It seems more likely that the buyer just didn’t get the number he was hoping for. This same buyer apparently did receive the ratio of PSA 9-quality cards he was looking for out of a similar 1977 Topps Baseball vending box he purchased from us (ebay item #5158201592) as he left positive feedback for the item (“Item was exactly as described. Thank you!”, see link http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=newenglandsportscards). Surprisingly there is no mention of that box in this thread.
The fact that we submit a large volume of cards to PSA does not preclude us from selling mint cards raw. In fact, we do so on a regular basis. Any cards that can’t be consistently graded profitably go out the door at a fraction of our cost. Further, it is unfair to assume that our opinion of “mint” is synonymous with “PSA 9”. We have mountains of PSA 5s, 6s, 7s and 8s that prove otherwise. Finally, these cards were sold as mint, not gem mint or PSA 9. There is a difference.
Responding to this thread is probably a no win proposition. I know some of you will agree with what I have written and some will disagree. I refuse, however, to sit idly by and allow someone to use half-truths and outright fabrications to tarnish the reputation of a company that my partner, co-workers and I have worked very hard to build.
Thanks for your time,
Roger
roger@4sharpcorners.com
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Great to see you chime in on this one. Cards just dont come out perfect do they.
PS you found an 81 lynn yet worth grading.
Gator
<< <i>Finally, these cards were sold as mint, not gem mint or PSA 9. There is a difference. >>
Is anyone else confused by this statement? I don't know Roger, and he certainly sounds like a courteous professional dealer - I would say he earned my respect by coming on here and stating his position. However, I'm not sure I get what the difference is between a mint card and a PSA 9 card.
"All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Thats where the question is nowdays. Raw and graded are two different breeds in my opinion you have raw sellers and graded usually 90% of the time many of your raw buyers are happy with your descriiption of mint which means minty example straight from the pack. Where the other 10% which would be the graded folk are looking for the holy grail or to take that shortcut. Sometime its a reward othertimes its disappointing. But I rarely blame it on the seller because thats the way it was before grading.
I buy and sell and when buying raw your taking a risk. Ive bought vending cases from the 70's including a 77 last year which put me down 8500. Even though its sealed its still a risk thats just the way cards run. Good, bad, soso, or absolutely horrible which you dont want to see happen but it does. So if roger pulled the stars and thats whats left then thats whats left. Ive had 77 boxes with only 6 mint 9's and the rest of the box being 8020. Then the next box being incredible. Being I bought the case from bbex i know its legit. Sometimes thats just the way they run.
just my 2 cents
<< <i>Morrel-
Thats where the question is nowdays. Raw and graded are two different breeds in my opinion you have raw sellers and graded usually 90% of the time many of your raw buyers are happy with your descriiption of mint which means minty example straight from the pack. Where the other 10% which would be the graded folk are looking for the holy grail or to take that shortcut. Sometime its a reward othertimes its disappointing. But I rarely blame it on the seller because thats the way it was before grading.
I buy and sell and when buying raw your taking a risk. Ive bought vending cases from the 70's including a 77 last year which put me down 8500. Even though its sealed its still a risk thats just the way cards run. Good, bad, soso, or absolutely horrible which you dont want to see happen but it does. So if roger pulled the stars and thats whats left then thats whats left. Ive had 77 boxes with only 6 mint 9's and the rest of the box being 8020. Then the next box being incredible. Being I bought the case from bbex i know its legit. Sometimes thats just the way they run.
just my 2 cents >>
I agree with all of your points in this post. However, if Roger sifted through these cards himself as he says I would think that a much better description of the cards should have been given. Your cases are sealed and unsearched. The cards in question in this thread were searched and the quality known to the seller. That to me is a big difference.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
It would be nice if they stated this in their auctions.
Shane
NESC has a similarly worded auction running this week...number 5161811865. I maintain...as does softparade and a few others, that the phrase "Key stars have been pulled" should be replaced by the phrase "Potentially gradeable cards have been pulled."
I am not looking to bash any dealers; I simply wanted opinions as to whether my frustration with the cards I received was justified. I never mentioned a dealer by name.
My question is simply this: would any of you, looking for potentially gradeable cards (9/10) for a 1979 Registry set, purchase eBay item number 5161811865?
Regards,
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Mr. Rumsey. That is an extremely poor excuse.
Your version of "Mint" than is comparable to PSA 5 or higher?
Even if your wording of "Mint" is not synonymous with "PSA 9", I think you
should read and get an understanding of what that word means in most
sportscard publications. Not in PSA 9 term, but in raw term for Mint.
Very misleading IMO.