Off brand grading worth

1967topps · January 21, 2005 3:46PM

Is this card worth much of
anything if it's not in a PSA holder?

Another way to ask it is given All Star Gradings seeming lack of repuation, might a PSA 8
holder of this card be worth more than this 10?

bobsbbcards · January 21, 2005 8:32PM

Yes, a PSA 8 of that card would be worth much more than an All-Star Grading 10. The card doesn't necessarily have to be in a PSA holder--an SGC 88 of that card or a GAI 8.5 would also indicate a card of similar worth to a PSA 8. The seller would be better off cracking the card out and selling it raw. Of course, they could luck out and get a buyer that isn't aware that grading companies have different standards (or lack of standards) and might pay significantly more than they should. That's why everybody should read these boards and get an education before buying graded cards.

This has been a public service announcement.

1977topps · January 21, 2005 9:32PM

That slab looks like something I could make.

Southerncards · January 21, 2005 9:52PM

Got to love a sticker and a screwdown!

jrdolan · January 21, 2005 10:58PM

I don't think it's worth anything. PSA would reject it because it's been under the razor. The fake bar code is a nice touch.

A761506 · January 21, 2005 11:25PM

I agree with Dolan, that card is virtually worthless.

1967topps · January 22, 2005 12:42AM

What makes you feel it has been "under the razor"?

(perhaps broken out of the slab and compared to other cards in size one would
get that answer.)

WinPitcher · January 22, 2005 1:09AM

What makes you feel it has been "under the razor"?

Because simply put if it was not trimmed the card would have been put in a PSA holder. Or GAI and SGC.

And even if it has not been put underthe knife it would prolly grade a 6 at best. just my humble opinion.

1967topps · January 22, 2005 7:42AM

Well then I'll crack it and see, hopefully those people who said they were gonna join
my submission will hurry up and get their cards thru the blizzard of 2005 to me.

jrdolan · January 22, 2005 11:34AM

<< <i>What makes you feel it has been "under the razor"? >>

1) 1967's white borders are wider than that. I would be extremely surprised if you took it out of the holder and it measured 2.5 x 3.5.

2) The only reason it's in a kitchen-table holder is that it's already been rejected by a real grading service. That's why these guys and PRO exist, to slab rejected cards.

By all means send it to PSA. We all had to learn this the hard way.

WC · January 22, 2005 8:29PM

A PRO education.

I purchased (on ebay) a couple of PRO graded '57s - a Mays PRO 9 and a Williams PRO 9 - well below what their PSA counterparts are valued. Didn't break them out of the holder - and sent to PSA (not knowing about PRO's reputation) for crossover grading. EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING on both. I think it was the quickest TAT on any of my submissions!!

One guy gave me a partial refund ('57 Williams) the other guy disappeared (patstep????). I started a fraud case with ebay and after jumping through all of their hoops - and being very patient - it finally resulted in me getting $175 back.

I put the card (Mays) on ebay still in its PRO slab with full disclosure that it had been sent to PSA and given the EVIDENCE OF TRIMMING kiss of death - and it sold for a little over $100!! I ended up almost breaking even for both cards - but I learned way more - stay away from PRO and keep your records until you are certain about the item.

And there is also a lesson in there about Greed!

1967topps · January 24, 2005 5:55AM

Seems to me still possible this scenario:

Guy gets his cards out of his basement after all these years. Starts poking around the internet
to see how to get his cards appraised.

Finds that many companies are doing card grading.

Chooses the best bargain and sends some cards in.

Gets a good deal from CSA, or FGS, or GEM, or All Star, or PGS/PRO, or AGS, or USA...

and has no idea that there are companies with much greater reputation than those mentioned above.

And hmm...do WE know for a FACT that every card that Topps cut in 1967 came out exactly the same dimension?

What characterizes a "miscut" (MC) card then?

mikeschmidt · January 24, 2005 6:00AM

<< <i>Seems to me still possible this scenario:

Guy gets his cards out of his basement after all these years. Starts poking around the internet
to see how to get his cards appraised.

Finds that many companies are doing card grading.

Chooses the best bargain and sends some cards in.

Gets a good deal from CSA, or FGS, or GEM, or All Star, or PGS/PRO, or AGS, or USA...
>>

Possible - but unlikely. Why would he do so much due diligence as to the pricing schematics of 10 different grading companies, without performing similar due diligence as to which grading company is used most, which realizes the most money on Ebay, etc.

The deals that you see are often on cards that are virtually worthless to begin with. For example, I purchased a few 1980 OPC Mike Schmidt FGS 10 GEM MINT cards a few years ago - they clearly weren't gem, but they yielded two PSA 8s and one PSA 9. Since I got each FGS 10 for under $8, I made out like a bandit. But you don't see such situations on cards worth hundreds, if not more....

~ms

cardfan07 · January 24, 2005 6:06AM

I don't know about the Rose card being trimmed. Here is an example of a Mays from that year in a PSA 8 holder. There isn't a ton of white border on that card either. I would be very suspicous in any case.

Wabittwax · January 24, 2005 7:02AM

I set up at the 2001 National. As the show was closing on Sunday, there was a little, overly caffinated, hyper guy racing around to people's tables making offers to buy boxes from tables. He was looking for dealers 50% off boxes, "Any card $5" boxes, etc. He offered me some money for a couple of mine. It wasn't a very good offer but honestly it was a bunch of crap cards that primarily sit there show after show, so I took his offer. I helped him carry the boxes back to his booth where there were 2 younger guys (his kids?) organizing about 50-100 monster boxes of cards that he was buying from tables. I asked him why he was buying so many cards at the end of the show. He said that he was the "president" of PGS grading. I put 2 and 2 together and didn't need any more explanation. So basically he would take these 1000's of cards to his little office, slab a PGS 10 on about 90% of them and start the fire sale. Good for him for making a couple bucks.

Anyways, I wouldn't necessarily assume that all those cards are trimmed. Not that I would pay huge money for one, but there is a chance that some of those cards are legit. My story above is one way that they could wind up in off brand holders and still be unaltered cards.

NickM · January 24, 2005 4:42PM

Wabitt - I don't think PGS was putting 10s on all of these cards. I have a couple '60s league leader cards with HOFers on them that are PGS 3.5 and 4.5 - I think each one is a half grade over what PSA would give it.

Frankly, I can't see anyone bothering to alter these cards - they're not worth the time or trouble to alter and leave in the condition they are in.

If I'm buying fairly inexpensive vintage in "collector grade" on the internet, I'd feel as comfortable buying PGS as raw advertised in the same grade (assuming the same price). I feel the same way about AGS. I've seen enough lower grade vintage in their holders that appeared accurately graded to feel that neither of those companies is in the business of in intentionally inflating grades. I wouldn't rely on either of them to catch alterations though.

mikeschmidt - the bad news is that the '80 OPC PSA 8s are now selling for less than grading fees. Tim Orff did not do well on a big Schmidt sale he had earlier this month.

Nick

1967topps · January 27, 2005 9:40PM

see new thread Rose is Rose

Off brand grading worth

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