Grade Opinions On This Mercury Please

vega1

I recently purchased the attached 1921 Mercury for my type set. I am very interested in your opinions on the grade. I'll reveal the NGC label later if anyone is interested.

Thanks!

Purple73

I'm usually a pretty conservative grader......This coin I think fits perfect in the Fine 12 area.

PURPLE!

marcmoish

VF20 should be the correct grade.

Nice circulated example



Marc

Steve27

F12 maybe F15

Steve27

Is it your photo, or is the coin off-center?

Purple73

<< <i>Is it your photo, or is the coin off-center? >>



I noticed that also..... NGC holder Perhaps?

PURPLE

vega1

Yeah, thats the holder not the coin. It is indeed NGC.

Thanks again for the grade opinions.

Fairlaneman

The holder probably says VF but the coin is a Fine. Nice defination of the date. Many 21P's are very weak in the date area. The coin looks like it is tilted in the holder. Thats what I hate about NGC slabbed mercs.

Ken

Purple73

Vega, Care to add what NGC graded it?

PURPLE

vega1

Its an NGC VF-20, and I paid VF-20 $$ for it.

The consensus appears to be Fine so far

I asked for opinons because I also felt it may have been slightly less than VF-20 based on the fasces. However, I am far from an expert at Mercury Dimes, and I was hoping the mercury experts in the group would perhaps justify the grade NGC gave to make me feel better.

In any case, this is for my certified type set and I am ecstatic to be able to add a semi-key Mercury to it, even if it is slightly overgraded. Its not exactly a rain on my parade... just a drizzle.

Thanks again for the opinons

Steve27

I'm going to have to send this one in for grading (I bought it for VG-8 money thinking it was a VG-10, now I'm thinking F-12):

Fairlaneman

vega 1 a VF coin should show complete definition of the diagonal two bands on the reverse. They can be weak but also they should be complete. From the picture it appears that this is not so. If they actually are your coin is a VF. If not Fine is what the coin is. Both PCGS and NGC seem to have forgot what the real grading standard is for these coins in this grade.

Ken

PTVETTER

I believe that both PCGS and NGC would grade it a VF 20, but like what has been said, most would grade it a fine 12. Different people different standards.

vega1

Thanks Fairlaneman. That is actually the reason I had concerns in the first place, even the Red Book says something similar when describing a VF Mercury. Live and learn.

Fairlaneman

I went back and looked at the obverse photo thinking that maybe the coin was graded strictly by that side of the coin. Even if it was graded by the obverse it still looks toooooo weak for a VF. More detail should show in the wing area. Oh well...

The sad part of this is that when a person is ready to sell a coin like this all they will get is low ball offers. Last year I saw one of these graded exactly like this in a dealers case. Up front he stated that the coin was not VF but a Fine. He actually wanted only Fine money for it. My bet is he paid Fine money for the coin also. Atleast the dealer was very honest even though a collector probably lost a few bucks when it was sold to the dealer.

Ken

dorkkarl

i also would call it f-15. ngc overgraded it at vf-20, but it seems to me that the five key merc's are getting overgraded left & right by all the plastic co's these days.

K S

vega1

marcmoish

Karl,

I agree - that is why I mentioned the VF-20 - I've seen soooo many key date merc's soooo overgraded that it makes this dime look pristine. vega I'd take the crying away - you got yourself a nice dime regardless as I said
For the 42 o/dts, 21 and 16-D this is what a VF-20 should look like - we're not discussing what it officially should be

Marc

KollectorKing

While we're on the subject of 1921 Mercs, I have an NGC AU50 1921-P Merc with what appears to be a double date...all 4 digits of the date are doubled, the doubling is to the left of the numbers. Can anyone shed some lights?

Thanks!

Fairlaneman

<< <i>For the 42 o/dts, 21 and 16-D this is what a VF-20 should look like - we're not discussing what it officially should be >>



Darn Marc I dropped my coffee into my lap when this was seen from you....

I know for sure you would not buy a Mint State dime that was obviously over graded so I am a little mistified with your reason for accepting the standard that has been applied to the circulated grades. In my so very humble opinion all of the coins graded should maintain a standard that is accepted by the majority of the collecting populace. We should not just accept what "Has Become" the TPG standard.

Just food for thought for collectors.

Ken

marcmoish

you're totally correct Ken, I would not, and my expertise is in Mint State, and I agree with you. I guess my comments are based on what I've seen in plastic at both TPG's. As I said much worse than this example therefore I was lenient and mentioned VF20 which it was.
I guess I wasn't clear enough whatever ,my skills defienntly do not include eloquent sentences


Marc

mgoodm3

I was thinking F also.

vega1

Its very interesting to me to view my own reactions to all of this. Before I even purchased the coin I had some doubts about the grade, yet I purchased it anyway (at the VF-20 price) because I think its a decent example of a semi-key, and I wanted it for my type set.

Would I rather have paid F-15 money for it? Absolutely! Am I upset because I didn't? A little (mainly because I have short arms and deep pockets ) I may be nuts, but overall, if the grade had been hidden from me, I think I probably still would have paid the same money for it because I really like it. I guess thats what counts.

Gee... I feel all warm and fuzzy with myself now that I have closure. From now on I will just picture my merc showing up at the Overgraded Anonymous meetings... "Hi. I'm Merc." "HI MERC" "I'm Fine and I'm proud of it!"

dorkkarl

<< <i>While we're on the subject of 1921 Mercs, I have an NGC AU50 1921-P Merc with what appears to be a double date...all 4 digits of the date are doubled, the doubling is to the left of the numbers. Can anyone shed some lights? >>

sounds suspiciously like common strike doubling - neither a bonus nor a detriment.

unfortunately for vega1, the value of the 1921 from f to vf probably doubles

K S

DoctorPaper

1921 merc's are notoriously weakly struck. The grading services sometimes will cut you a little slack on circulated (and uncirculated) coins from dates/mints known to be poorly struck. Maybe that's a bit of what's going on here. I agree your coin doesn't fit the usual VF20 definition...

vega1

Dorkkarl, thanks for the parting kick in the nads.