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GAI vs. PSA, or PSA vs. GAI from integrity thread

In response,

re: "2) GAI is also to be avoided (not new info)" from the integrity thread:

Hold on a moment: Having been in the "graded" collecting business since its inception, I think that statement is unwarranted. I have PSA cards that I would deem "suspect at best." I bet if I were to crack them open and resubmit them, my bet would be that they would come back as "evidence trimmed." Now, GAI, on the other hand, which I have quite a few of their cards, too, seem to me to be right on their grading — as with PSA — and, I have found, are just as strict as PSA. In addition, the GAI holders appear to be very tamper proof, unlike the PSA holders. I am not touting GAI over PSA . I think blatant statments such as above, however, are not fair in any respect. In conclusion, I think a GAI graded card stands along side a PSA card in all respects. Give me one or the other, but I only ask that it is graded by someone who knows what they are doing.

Go, Steelers!

Bill

Comments

  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Bill
    I can't argue with the fact that all the companies will make mistakes. The thing that disappoints me is when someone sends a holder in from another company and it is returned: "evidence" of trim. Then the person cracks the card and submits it and it is returned "graded."
    I suspect that has less to do with competence and more to do with politics? Not sure.
    Also, the guys that are trimming are getting real good at it - laser cutting isn't like taking an exacto to a card, from what I understand from reading.

    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • Hello, Guys,

    Which brings up another point. PSA does not encapsulate a card which has been determined as being trimmed. Now if a person had a card graded 9.5 by another company, cracked it open and resubmitted it to another company and the second company found it to be trimmed and dinged, why would the person crack the case open to begin with?????? Seems to me, anyone can get on these boards, fabricate a story, and make a grading company look bad. It's like me saying, "I had a PSA 9 '33 Goudy Gehrig and cracked it open and sent it to GAI and they said it was trimmed." Who is kidding whom here? If I have a graded card I suspect to be altered, I'll send it to a company in the holder and have them review it before it is cracked open.

    You know, maybe it is all about integrity and honesty. I have begun to scrutinize every graded card I purchase and take nothing at face value.

    Go Steelers!
    Bill
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,409 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Seems to me, anyone can get on these boards, fabricate a story >>


    Bill
    In this case the story wasn't fabricated - Teachervido posted a pic of the GAI card and also the card in a toploader from BCG.

    image

    So, he presented two problems - one was the fact that they deemed trimmed a card that GAI graded and second, the card came back damaged and he stated it was fine when he submitted it.

    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭
    Well, first of all, I agree that GAI is just fine and is about as reliable as the other "big three" (PSA, BGS, and SGC). I don't believe they would "knowingly" do anything dishonest. The very foundation of their business, as well as PSA's, BGS's, etc., is based on trust and they'd be insane to risk it for a few dollars here and there. Admittedly, I've only got a few GAI cards, but all of the have been properly graded. The same with BGS (not BCCG) of which I've more experience with.

    Regarding the grading of cards through the holders, I don't think it's an issue of politics, but more of erring on the side of safety. It's very difficult to grade a card through the holder. The GAI hold in particular has more depth than those used by PSA or BGS and this does make the card look somewhat smaller from front to back.

    In regards to the question of why one would "crack the case open and send to another company to begin with", the answer is very simple. Check out some of the going prices for graded cards on eBay. A 9.5 GAI graded Clemens would sell for between $600-700, a PSA 10 would go for about $1000, and a BGS 9.5 would go as high as $1500.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Seems to me, anyone can get on these boards, fabricate a story >>


    Bill
    In this case the story wasn't fabricated - Teachervido posted a pic of the GAI card and also the card in a toploader from BCG.

    So, he presented two problems - one was the fact that they deemed trimmed a card that GAI graded and second, the card came back damaged and he stated it was fine when he submitted it.

    your friend
    Mike >>



    I've rec'd "trimmed" rejections from BGS before. They normally mark it as a "shaved edge". This particular one does not indicate a trim, but rather a cut corner (lower right, I assume). On the issue of the cut corner, is he saying that BGS did this in the handling process?
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Brian
    Good points. There is still the gnawing mystery over the fact that one company accepted a card and another rejected it and the question about the card being damaged in handling.
    On the politics - that was rhetorical and you make a good point about difficulty - but they accept that form of (re)grading and perhaps, shouldn't? Erring on the safe side has a responsibility not to condemn the product - so if they can't tell for sure, just state - "not able to grade with assurance" - to state evidence of trimming has the connotation of assurance in their assessment IMO.

    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • my comments about GAI stems from my personal experience with what appeared to over graded vintage cards. This is just my opinion, I don't purchase them. If others have other opinions, GREAT!! That to me is what these boards are about, not debating the merits of 9-11 and the link to Iraq, WMD, etc. Bob
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hi Bob
    Can't argue with what you said but isn't that in another thread?

    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • BGS isn't in my big 3...
    anyone else agree with that statement?

    and

    ---Speaking of big three... anyone seen any "snaggletooth" graded cards lately? I thought that was a joke... I missed my chance to own one... now I have just got to have one. I'd actually love to have a don mossi card graded by snaggletooth grading...
  • The threads appear to be intertwined. Hopefully the political/religious commentary will stick to the other. Ideally, in a wholly different forum. Thanks, Bob
  • Here is my question: Did I miss the scan of the card in question (the one shown above) when it was in a GAI holder so we can determine if it, indeed, was the same card? Again, if it was a high grade GAI card, why was it submitted to another grading service. (???)

    Also, I think there are only 3 grading services to trust: PSA, GAI and SGC . . . I wouldn't buy a card from any other, period!

    Also, to all the wise and trusted contributors to this forum . . . you have the best advice always, "Buy the card, not the holder!"
  • Bill, don't forget snaggletooth grading...

    Hey, anyone find a snaggletooth graded card yet? Come on, I have paypal burning a hole in my pocket here to buy a cool one...
    I think they mostly graded star wars... but I'll even take a don mossi.
  • I purchased this GAI 6, and it meets all PSA 6 requirements. Would I crack it open and get it regraded? No, there is no reason to.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I purchased this GAI 6, and it meets all PSA 6 requirements. Would I crack it open and get it regraded? No, there is no reason to. >>



    Well, of course not. That's a vintage card and it's also not a high grade. The differences in market value are not that great between a PSA vs GAI vs BVG graded card. However if you had a modern card that is also a high-grade, the price gap is very wide between cards graded by a particular grading service.

    Just to illustrate how insane the market is, a PSA 10 '85 Donruss Clemens sells for about $100+, the BGS 9.5 equivalent is nearly four times that. A BGS 10 recently sold for just under $4000 last month. And this is just for a card that normally books for $50. The huge difference in $$$ is more than enough reason for some people to do the regrading.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,409 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here is my question: Did I miss the scan of the card in question (the one shown above) when it was in a GAI holder so we can determine if it, indeed, was the same card? Again, if it was a high grade GAI card, why was it submitted to another grading service. (???)

    Also, I think there are only 3 grading services to trust: PSA, GAI and SGC . . . I wouldn't buy a card from any other, period!

    Also, to all the wise and trusted contributors to this forum . . . you have the best advice always, "Buy the card, not the holder!" >>


    Bill
    It is in the thread entitled "Dilemma" - it is the same card.

    image

    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • a PSA 10 '85 Donruss Clemens sells for about $100+, the BGS 9.5 equivalent is nearly four times that. A BGS 10 recently sold for just under $4000 last month. And this is just for a card that normally books for $50. The huge difference in $$$ is more than enough reason for some people to do the regrading.

    Is this really true? Are people really paying this much more for a beckett graded card?
    Are there many examples like this?

    I plead ingnorance... I stopped looking at their auctions and swagazine a few years ago after being angered by the bccg/bvg stuff.



  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Bill
    It is in the thread entitled "Dilemma" - it is the same card. >>



    Based on BGS's response, I don't see any indication of trimming or issues with the card while it was in the GAI holder. Looks to me like someone on the BGS side damaged the card (clipped it?) before examining it and assigning the final grade. In any case, I'd be really pissed.
  • SDavidSDavid Posts: 1,584 ✭✭
    1985 donruss clemens bgs 9.5

    1985 Donruss Clemens PSA 10

    If anyone wants to sell me a PSA 10 of that card for $100, send me a message. Heck, I might even be a sport and go up to $150, lol.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭


    << <i>1985 donruss clemens bgs 9.5

    1985 Donruss Clemens PSA 10

    If anyone wants to sell me a PSA 10 of that card for $100, send me a message. Heck, I might even be a sport and go up to $150, lol. >>



    And just think, if you can get that PSA 10 regraded by BGS and hopefully score a 10, you can pick up a few extra bucks like this guy:

    85 Clemens BGS 10

    There were a couple of other 85 Donruss listed, but these were only BGS 9.5 with BUY IT NOW prices of just under $400.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,624 ✭✭✭
    Actually, looking at that PSA 10, it would only grade as a BGS 9.5. The Top/Bottom centering doesn't appear to be 50/50. One thing about BGS, they're a real stickler when it comes to the centering for their higher grades.
  • SDavidSDavid Posts: 1,584 ✭✭
    Yeah, but a psa 10 and a bgs 9.5 are the same grade (gem mint). I personally don't put much stock in the pristine grade (from any company). They have a hard enough time being consistant at the mint/gem mint level. I bet there are a lot of bgs 9.5's/ sgc 98's/ gai 9.5's that are every bit as strong as the ones graded "pristine." And those grades are rarely awarded so cracking out a gem mint card to get one would be a tough way to make money. You'd get better odds in vegas.
  • Man, oh man, it seems like Im being slapped around the board. Anyways, I bought the card off from eBay by the seller of "coco_cards" Again, I in fact DID NOT like the way/design of the GAI HOLDER which is the reason why I wanted it regraded by Beckett. Then again, people will ask me why I bought the card in the first place. Well, to answer that, "I bought it for the card itself, NOT the grade." At the same time, I wanted the card to be encapsulated in a good, sturdy case. Since it was graded a 9.5 by GAI, I was pretty sure it would be graded no less than a 9 by Beckett which I wouldve been content with. By no means did I think the card that was bought was trimmed.
    I guess the mistake that I made was cracking the card open and sending it RAW to beckett to grade. Before I shipped the card out, it was in MINT condition. I have a scan to prove that. But when I got it back yesterday, there was a ding on the bottom left corner which is visible with the naked eye on the scan.
    Again, the reason why I cracked it OPEN was because I DID NOT LIKE THE GAI HOLDER.
    I sent an email to both grading companies. I got a reply back today through GAI saying that they are more than willing to regrade the card for me FREE of charge but also told me, that it might not be the best scenario since the card is no longer in 9.5 condition (ding on the corner)
    image
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