Question On Bid Increments

bosox

I tried hard to win this lot. I bid what I thought was a very, very high amount ($11,000). A floor bidder won it at $11,500 plus the 15% = $13,225. I'm wondering how a floor bidder gets it at $11.5 when Heritage has published that the bid increment at that level is $1,000, so the next bid should have been $12,000. Does the auctioneer just arbitrarily make exceptions to the published increment policy? I guess it will teach me to be there in person next time.

1887 Canada Cent - PCGS MS-66 Red

wybrit

I've encountered the same thing.

The rules state "All bids must be at least one bidding increment over the current bid. However,these increments only apply to the current bid. Bids greater than one increment over the current bid can be any whole dollar amount."

This means that if the current bid is at $10,000 and your opponent enters a secret maximum of $11,500, that when you entered your next bid at $11,000, it still did not exceed his secret maximum. That raised the price automatically to his secret maximum, since the increment turned out to be more than $1,000, $1,500 in this case. That meets all of the requirements of the statement above.

bosox

True, but the Heritage web site listed me as the high bidder at $8,500 (secret max $11,000) as the auction began. All of this happened on the floor, not on the internet bidding.

wybrit

Case I: If the floor bidder decides to bid up to $11,500 right away (from $8,500), the same quandry happens. The bid increment exceeded the minimum $500.

Case II: Your bid starts it at $8,500. Floor bidder raises hand, makes it $9,000. Your bid automatically goes to $9,500. Floor bidder raises hand, makes it $10,000, your price automatically goes to $11,000.

If Case II was how it went, then you have a legitimate gripe. If it happened as Case I, then they followed their rules.


Do you know where the bidding started? That's what dictates how the increments are done.

Disclaimer: I don't know how the floor bidding works...

bosox

I don't intend to make a gripe with them. $11 was as high as I was willing to go and somebody went higher. It's just a little annoying if the auctioneer let my competition get away less than he should have under your case #2. I did win three (out of the five lots I bid on) other lots, which helps ease the disappointment.

wybrit

3/5 - that's good considering the competition is very hot.

If I get that winning percentage, I will be very happy (and quite poor).

MacCrimmon

Bosox, you were the victim of a "cut bid".

Cut bids are universal and have been allowed on the floor for as long as I can remember, which dates back to the early 1980s. In a nutshell, the auctioneer acknowledged your $11,000 bid and asked for $12,000. This absolutely happened, however, the floor bidder (and winning bidder) is allowed to cut the bid in half one time, and only one time.

The next bid level is again automatically taken to $12,000. The bidder at $11,500 is not allowed to bid any further on this lot, and would have been out if your (or any other's) top bid was $12,000.

Hope this explains the phenomenon......all the more reason it is very critical to be bidding for your own account on the floor....at least sometimes.

zzzz

I've been to many of live auctions and this happens a few times. The bidding gets to less say $11,000 (your max). The auctionier asks for $12,000 (the proper increment). The person bidding against you from the floor offers $11,500. it is at the discretion of the auctionier to either accept the bid or reject the bid. Evidently he accepted it and you lost. Such is one of the advantages of attending the auction in person or have someone represent you there in person.

Also in case of a tie bid. The tie goes to the floor bidder.

bosox

Thanks guys. The cut bid must be what happened. I really thought about flying to New York to bid in person, but didn't. Live and learn.