MS63 1861 Half 1$....Crack and resubmit or leave be?

fivecents

The more I look at this coin the more I think it is an easy lock MS64. I just received this seated half from PCGS yesterday. Greysheet MS63 bid is $755, MS64 bid is $1660. Should I crack and resubmit ? I couldn't capture the luster in the photos attached below.

cdan12

ms-64 crack and resubmit

longtimecollector

I'm thinking 63 was generous....... leave it alone

NumisOxide

I agree with longtimecollector.Leave it. Great looking seated half.

FC57Coins

fivecents

Here are two more obverse pictures attached below.

coinguy1

<< <i>I'm thinking 63 was generous....... leave it alone >>

Based upon what? From the images at least, it looks to be extremely clean for the grade. And fivecents has indicated that the luster is better in person. Other than a few dark stains, there is little apparently wrong with the coin.

I realize that I have repeatedly said it is impossible to consistently grade accurately from images, and I stand by that.

Images often distort things and/or hide flaws or even make them look worse than they actually are. However, if we are going to say a coin looks over-graded (as opposed to under-graded), it would be helpful to at least articulate the reasons for saying so.

tmot99

The newer photos show more disturbance in the fields. Hard to tell how significant they are. I was going to say crack it until I saw those. If they are truly there, probably not worth sending back.

Are you planning on selling it? What is your reason for wanting to send it back?

tsacch

Leave it alone and enjoy it as is.......t

sadysta1

i'd say it's a 63

fivecents

<< <i>The newer photos show more disturbance in the fields. >>


These photos were taken in direct sunlight, the fields disturbances are very insignificant. The feilds are clean and the devices show no traces of wear.

Baley

My opinion, based on the pics, is that it's happy as an MS63. It's unlikely to come back from PCGS any higher.

cohodk

I think the coin is very nice in a 63 holder. It will not upgrade(at the current time)

nwcs

If you're not going to sell it, leave it alone. But if you do submit, leave it in the holder to help protect the grade in case they might suddenly see some wear and call it 58.

tradedollarnut

Mark: while I agree with you that you cannot grade off an image, I believe that one can formulate an opinion on the coin - which is what was asked for. I would formulate this opinion using the current holder as a guide.

Based on the fact that it just graded MS63 and appears to lack the luster for an MS64 [yes, I know he stated the image doesn't show the luster, but most images do not. One has to interpret the image to imagine the luster. Other images interpret to have more luster than this coin would appear to show], I would suggest the coin is in the correct holder.

Of course, one could spend $50 to try at NGC and then $50 to cross back to PCGS [or more] ..... or one could just be happy with a nice looking coin the way it is.

pmh1nic

I think the splochy toning, the spots and there location preclude a 64.

coinguy1

<< <i> I believe that one can formulate an opinion on the coin - which is what was asked for. I would formulate this opinion using the current holder as a guide. >>

TDN I agree with you on that. And, at least you gave your reason/basis for reaching your opinion. Some other posters did not do that.

By the way, this PCGS MS64 example brought $1610 in the Nov. 2004 Heritage sale. Hmmm.

roadrunner

PCGS as well as NGC can be 1 pt either way on seated halves. I just had 2 seated halves returned as MS63 that had been to PCGS looking for MS65 grades! It didn't seem to matter to them this time that both were previously in THEIR 64 holders. In fact, one of them had been graded 64 by NGC also. The other coin came out of a first gen PCGS holder. Nothing says they have to be consistent or fair.

Your 1861 could just as well be a MS64 or a MS63. Currently it is a MS63 which only says that the "odds" favor it staying that grade.
However, the odds are wrong from 20-30% of the time with the grading services.

roadrunner

techeff

However, if we are going to say a coin looks over-graded (as opposed to under-graded), it would be helpful to at least articulate the reasons for saying so.

That would certainly improve things around here!

LindeDad

Suprised they gave it as high as a 63. Sorry but it would be a waste of money to resubmit. Not enouph luster for a higher grade.

tradedollarnut

They look at least a grade apart to me. The frost on the devices on the 64 is much more complete and the eye appeal is positive:

coinguy1

<< <i>The frost on the devices on the 64 is much more complete and the eye appeal is positive: >>

And it looks to have more friction/rub on the high points of the obverse. I think that (due to the apparent staining,) the reverse "eye-appeal" is negative, not positive.

fivecents

Here is another obverse picture taken inside. Attached below.

JadeRareCoin

As has clearly been discussed here, it is nearly impossible to accurately grade mint state coins from an image. Circulated coins are easier to grade from an image because the luster is less of an issue.

TDN is correct that we can "formulate opinions", but that's about it. And......insert drum roll here..........my opinion is that your 1861 half has a shot at an upgrade. Just an opinion, but worth the $50 to try, imho. Very nice coin.

fivecents

The majority believe I am lucky to have this coin in an MS63 holder. I no longer think this is a lock MS64, but I do think it has a shot at MS64. How perfect is the MS64 grade any way? I don't see any marks on this coin that would cause it to be a MS63. I also don't see strike being an issue to cause this coin to be a MS63. I guess PCGS thought the luster must be an issue for the MS63 grade. I am going to try to submit this coin one or two more times then I will give up and leave it as a MS63.

dorkkarl

crack it out & leave it out. why not just appreciate the coin for what it is, & not worry so much about it's $$$ value?

besides, it looks like a low-end 63 to me.

K S