Didnt purchase insurance

metsfan · January 8, 2005 10:21PM

I sent a card on Dec.11,2004 to an ebayer that did not receive it. He did not purchase insurance. The card was only $3. Should I just refund his money? He paid w/paypal, and I didn't purchase DC. I think paypal will side with him.
I know its only $3, but it makes me rethink my shipping pratices. Most of my sales are under $10, and DC can get expensive. Any thoughts?
Thanks

pandrews · January 9, 2005 1:18AM

paypal doesnt care about insurance.. if you didnt purchase delivery confirmation, paypal will screw you.. be glad its only $3.00..

fsjeter · January 9, 2005 1:24AM

I would go ahead and refund the $3.00. It's not worth it to worry about it too much. Next time, send it first class with DC in a padded envelope (use some bubble wrap to make the envelope 3/4 of an inch thick or you can't use DC). That should get it there for around $2.00 total.

Scott

metsfan · January 9, 2005 1:24AM

It's weird, though. He won the card Dec.9. I sent the card Dec.11. He doesn't notify me until Jan. 7! Who waits a month before emailing a seller? I would email after 15 days. I guess everyones different.

fsjeter · January 9, 2005 1:26AM

He only has 30 days to notify Paypal. If he won on 12/9 he may be too late to get a refund from them!

Scott

metsfan · January 9, 2005 1:29AM

fjester:
It seems all the post offices have different rules for dc. The web site says it must be 3/4 inch thick at the thickest point. One postman always tells me 1/2 inch and someone told me it only applies to regular envelopes. I use bubble envelopes. One postal employee doesn't even question it. Do you know what the actual rules are?

easttexascardsandgames · January 9, 2005 1:33AM

Use online postage and DC is free for priority and I think 13 cents for other.

Insurance protect the seller, not the buyer. I feel the seller is responsible for making sure the item is recieved not just mailed. Wouldn't you expect your buyer to resend a money order if it got lost in the mail??

If he files today Paypal will side with him you have 30 days, but that is beside the point is it really worth getting into a fuss over 3.00.

The rule according to USPS is 3/4 of an inch. On priority it does not matter on size.

fsjeter · January 9, 2005 1:33AM

An envelope must be 3/4 of an inch thick at the thickest point in order to use Delivery Confirmation with first class postage.

Scott

metsfan · January 9, 2005 1:36AM

Scott:
I noticed the 30 day rule on paypals site. He actually notified me on Jan. 7. I told him to give it a few more days(not knowing about the 30 day rule.)I'll probably just refund him the money.
The second question: Since he paid w/paypal, I will paypal the refund. But he will actually get less then he paid. This doesn't seem fair to me. I had actually had this happen to me.
I paid $9.95 for a monthly subscription to a game site. They never opened my account. I kept asking when they would open it,and they never replied.Then all of a sudden I get a refund via paypal(which I didn't ask for.)And of course the refund amount was $9.95-ebay fees. Thoughts on this?
Wayne

metsfan · January 9, 2005 1:41AM

I think insurance protects the buyer and seller. DC just confirms delivery. It just proves the buyer received something. As a buyer I really don't care about dc. If I buy something and its lost,dc wont protect me,insurance will.

jrdolan · January 9, 2005 2:01AM

Insurace protects the seller, and the seller is the only one who can make a claim to the PO. The buyer has no claim except to the seller.

The seller can require the buyer to pay for insurance, but there is no direct protection for the buyer at all. It's all up to the seller whether to refund the money and try to recover it from the PO.

The exception is if you use PayPal and the item never arrived. Unless the seller can prove with delivery confirmation that you are lying, PayPal will reverse the charge. Check or MO, again it's all up to the seller whether to believe you and refund your money.

fsjeter · January 9, 2005 2:04AM

<<If I buy something and its lost,dc wont protect me,insurance will. >>

It will as far as paypal is concerned. If a seller doesn't use DC paypal will refund the buyers money. Also, unless the seller sends you the original receipt, they must file the claim and the buyer is out of the loop until the claim is settled. The original receipt, if insurance was purchased at the post office, is the only acceptable "Evidence of Insurance" that can accompany the claim if the package was not received.

Scott

From the USPS website:

Evidence of Insurance
Submit evidence that Insured Mail, Collect on Delivery (COD), Registered Mail™, or Express Mail® was purchased for the mailed package.

For insurance purchased at a Post Office or through a rural carrier, you will need the original mailing receipt that you were given at the time of mailing. This can be a sales receipt or a postmarked Insured Mail, Registered Mail, or COD receipt.

For insurance purchased online you will need a computer printout from the web-based application where the label was printed and insurance was purchased. The printout must clearly identify all of the following information:
Delivery Confirmation™ or Signature Confirmation™ number of the insured item
Total Postage Paid
Origin ZIP Code™
Declared Value
Insurance Fee Paid
Declared Mailing Date
Delivery ZIP Code

For example, in Click-N-Ship® a copy of the Online Label Record or of the Shipping History Details page provides evidence of insurance.

For a detailed list of acceptable evidence check the General Filing Instructions in the Domestic Mail Manual

habs71 · January 9, 2005 2:14AM

<< Since he paid w/paypal, I will paypal the refund. But he will actually get less then he paid. This doesn't seem fair to me. >>

Not if you go to your Paypal account, click on the transaction..at the bottom there should be a "Refund" link..just click on that. He'll get his full refund.

Skip

easttexascardsandgames · January 9, 2005 2:24AM

That refund link expires at 30 days(they might have increased that to 45) at that point he will have to pay Paypal fees if he has a premier account to recieve the refund.

brianwintersfan · January 9, 2005 3:48AM

<< I feel the seller is responsible for making sure the item is recieved not just mailed. >>

You're joking correct??
Anyway I wouldn't refund a penny.If you sent the card in good faith and he didn't want insurance then it's not your fault if the post office lost it.Why should I make good on their screw-ups.I recently had this happen with a buyer.He won a card from me for $25.00 and decided not to take insurance.Well now he claims he never received it.He was sniffing around for a refund but I don't play that game.He could have just as easily gotten the card and lied that he never got it because he had buyer's remorse.

SDavid · January 9, 2005 4:03AM

I recommend either bundling the cheaper cards in lots and using DC or selling them off ebay.

I use DC on cheap sales as well, but I try to list very few "cheap" auctions on ebay. It isn't worth it and sometimes lots actually sell better.

Also, I use the automated postal center and I've never had a problem w/ DC even though my packages are almost never 3/4" thick.

JERO · January 9, 2005 4:32AM

My post office says DC can't be in a regular envelope, it has to be in a "package". I mail sporting event tickets in a bubble mailer "package" just to get the DC without paying for priority mailing. They also are less than 1/2 an inch thick.

JERO

metsfan · January 9, 2005 12:05PM

The buyer just left me positive feedback. So I guess he found the card. I think he forgot he received it. He's pretty new to ebay so I guess I'll cut him some slack.
I always use bubble mailers and all postal workers seem to have different rules on dc. You would think the rules would be more uniform.

Tabe · January 9, 2005 3:55PM

<< 

<< I feel the seller is responsible for making sure the item is recieved not just mailed. >>

You're joking correct??
Anyway I wouldn't refund a penny.If you sent the card in good faith and he didn't want insurance then it's not your fault if the post office lost it.Why should I make good on their screw-ups. >>

Because, as the seller, you hired the post office to deliver the item. If they didn't deliver it, since they were acting as your agent in the transaction, you are at fault, regardless of insurance. The buyer shouldn't have to pay extra to get you to hire a reliable delivery service.

Tabe

brianwintersfan · January 9, 2005 4:01PM

<< Because, as the seller, you hired the post office to deliver the item. If they didn't deliver it, since they were acting as your agent in the transaction, you are at fault, regardless of insurance. The buyer shouldn't have to pay extra to get you to hire a reliable delivery service. >>

Give me a break!

easttexascardsandgames · January 9, 2005 9:42PM

Reverse that what if the buyer sends the money order and it is lost?? You are going to expect him to send you another one even though it is not their fault right. They are responsible for getting that to you, just as you are resposonsible for getting it to them

The postal service is an agent hired by you to deliver the item, if the seller picks the method of shipping it is different. I don't see how anyone who sells can think differently, and if you do please put me on your blocked bidders list now. You will not like me should I buy an expensive card and it not get to my door, I will file mail fraud and everything else I can.

The IFCC considers all mail as being in the sellers possession until the buyer gets it.

On insurance, many post offices will not even accept an insurance claim except from the person who shipped the item. Mine won't.

brianwintersfan · January 10, 2005 1:18PM

<< and if you do please put me on your blocked bidders list now >>

What's your user id??

thefootballcardstore · January 10, 2005 1:58PM

If you accept Paypal, you must ensure delivery . . . period.
Buy a tracking number, or don't take paypal unless you want to be 100% responsible.

Why should any buyer pay extra for insurance if PayPal includes $1000 worth of buyer protection to begin with. Purchasing additional insurance only helps if the item is received but damaged.

Retain proof that you shipped to the required address

Always retain proof that you honored the payment and shipped the item to the address on the Transaction Details page. Acceptable proof of shipping varies by country. Please refer to the XXX section of the User Agreement for details. If a claim is filed, PayPal will need a copy of this shipment record.
_______________________________________________

Here's another PayPal must for sellers.

For valuable items, require a signature receipt

For items with a value of $250.00 USD or more, you should provide a proof of receipt in the form of a signature from the recipient. This proves that the item was delivered to the buyer. Many carrier companies offer these proof of shipping services.

Jeremy

Tabe · January 11, 2005 3:27AM

<< 

<< Because, as the seller, you hired the post office to deliver the item. If they didn't deliver it, since they were acting as your agent in the transaction, you are at fault, regardless of insurance. The buyer shouldn't have to pay extra to get you to hire a reliable delivery service. >>

Give me a break! >>

Truth hurts, eh?

Tabe

easttexascardsandgames · January 11, 2005 3:41AM

It is IMHO ignorant to believe that a sellers responsibilty ends when you mail an item and are just setting themselves up for a very hard lesson.

Why won't you answer my question??

If a buyer mailed a payment that got lost you would expect him to be responsible to resend the payment, right?? So why should a buyer get less of a treatment. If you take paypal it is your responsibilty to prove the item was delivered not just shipped. If you have a DC on an item and it does not show it was delivered to a confirmed that buyer will get their money back should they complain about not getting regardless of if you like it or not. Been there done that, I had DC that showed the item was shipped but it never arrived Paypal gave them a refund.

Didnt purchase insurance

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