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Newbie Question on SAINT GAUDENS coins.

I'm a total newbie to coin collecting, so new in fact that I don't actually OWN any coins yet! However, I am considering my first purchase and I'm hoping for some friendly advise. A local dealer that I have had dealings with on bullion and who I do trust is high on MS-63 $20 Saint Gaudens gold pieces. He makes some good points that I agree with, namely...

1) Saint Gaudens is the most universally traded.
2) Every $20 Saint Gaudens contains nearly one ounce of pure gold which means, at the very least, if gold moves up this coin will follow. I really LIKE this reason because I'm not so much concerned with getting the largest gain. My criterion for success is really simple. I want to hold coins for X years and have my coins be worth 10% more per year than I would have made from straigh bullion coins. In other words, say I hold for 5 years and bullion goes up 40%, I would like to make 90% on my rare coins. Say I hold for 5 years and bullion does up 70%, I would like to make 120% on my coins. Is this a reasonable goal and is the Saint Gaudens a good vehicle for that? If not can somebody suggest a more reasonable goal and/or a better coin? I'm willing to budget probably around $6000 in the next twelve months toward this.


One more thing. When I was young and dumb (now I'm old and dumb), I bought some coins from some guy in a hotel room that were not in any cases and he told me they were MS-65 and were worth $400 each, but he gave me a "deal" of $200 each. Naturally you know how this turned out, I found out later that they were $40 coins, live and learn. That was about 20 years ago and it turned me off to rare coins from my own ignorance. I'm still somewhat hesistant about getting into rare coins because how do I really know that the PCGS grade is for the coin that's in ths slab? How do I know somebody didn't buy a MS-62 and a MS-64 and just swap the coins?

Thank you,

Dwayne

Comments

  • image I think you got good advice on ms63 saints, Be aware of what they are selling for on E-bay and be sure to buy PCGS or NGC graded examples
    Michael
  • Traditionally, numismatic value will not rise as much as bullion value if the bullion value really takes off as happened in '79-'80.

    With higher end grades it will stay a little closer. MS 63 doesn't constitute a higher end grade.

    I don't know a way to switch a coin in a PCGS slab without destroying the slab in the process. That's the way the slabs are made intentionally. If coins could be swapped out, what would be the point of slabbing them?

    I once felt as you did, but not for long. Try the MS 65 and higher grades for value rising with bullion values.

    For bullion, buy bullion.
    "Lenin is certainly right. There is no subtler or more severe means of overturning the existing basis of society(destroy capitalism) than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and it does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."
    John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
  • If you are new I'd suggest sticking to bullion gold coins at very near buy price because of liquidity issues. It is never a
    good idea to speculate in collector coins, due to liquidity issues and the 15% plus cost of sales if you are not a dealer.

    For longer term holds, I suggest you subscribe to The Rosen Numismatic Advisor (Invester Letter) at 516-433-5800 ($48)
    before commiting a penny, and of course the Wall Street Journal before buying any stocks as well as Valueline Invester.

    No one can outsmart the market without facts first! Right?image
    morgannut2
  • In my humble opinion if you are to get into coins do it for the right reasons.
    To get in just to make a profit in X years is NOT a good reason.

    Get into coins because you LIKE the coin. You Enjoy the coin.

    My philosophy on my coin collecting is buying a coin I like and enjoy and I hope when/If I sell I just don't lose too much money.

    I think you better stick to bullion ... IMHO
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    image Please don't buy coins as an investment, this is a hobby. You have to love the stupid things to enjoy this hobby, and you have to do your homework. Don't feel bad about getting ripped off, it happens to all of us. Which is just another reason not to try to use rare coins as an investment image

    Becky
  • Since you are thinking of buying gold as an investment I also agree with everyone suggesting the bullion coins such as gold eagles. However, I think you should buy gold bullion coins as insurance against a collapsing dollar -- which IMO is a good reason to own it. Once you've purchased your "insurance" then you may consider a few saints as a speculation.
  • RYKRYK Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My criterion for success is really simple. I want to hold coins for X years and have my coins be worth 10% more per year than I would have made from straigh bullion coins. In other words, say I hold for 5 years and bullion goes up 40%, I would like to make 90% on my rare coins. Say I hold for 5 years and bullion does up 70%, I would like to make 120% on my coins. Is this a reasonable goal and is the Saint Gaudens a good vehicle for that? If not can somebody suggest a more reasonable goal and/or a better coin? I'm willing to budget probably around $6000 in the next twelve months toward this.

    There is no formula to predict how MS-63 Saints will perform with respect to the price of bullion. If you are going to purchase MS-63 Saints as a speculation, I recommend buying PCGS MS-63 Saints and buying the slightly better dates (not 1924, 26, 27, 28) because they MAY (or may not) carry a small numismatic premium, and to me, more scarce coins are inherently more interesting.

    I'm a total newbie to coin collecting...

    Please don't buy coins as an investment, this is a hobby. You have to love the stupid things to enjoy this hobby, and you have to do your homework.


    It sounds like you are more interested in speculating, than collecting. This is okay (I do a little bit of this, as well), but just recognize it for what it is, and know that the margins for trading even a coin as liquid as an MS-63 Saint (and nothing is more liquid) can be as high as 10-15% or more.
  • Thank you to everybody that replied! After reading all of the comments I do agree that as of right now I'd be in it for the wrong reasons, I'm a speculator and this is a hobby for people who truly like coin collecting. I will pick up a copy of The Rosen Numismatic Advisor though as suggested and check it out. But as of right now I think I will stick to bullion which I have been using as insurance against the falling dollar as was suggested. Unless I become truly interested in the collectring side, I think I'll stick to bullion coins, Kangaroo Nuggets being my coin of choice simply because it does look kinda cool.

    Thanks again.

    Dwayne
  • DorkGirlDorkGirl Posts: 9,994 ✭✭✭
    Lots of the World gold bullion coins are cool!! I love these:

    image
    image

    and just cost a hair over spot. Check out the roosters and angels too, the designs are beautifulimage
    Becky
  • Very informative thread!

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