E-bay Feedback- Who should leave it first?

Teemu · January 6, 2005 2:36AM

I'm sure this topic has been posted before, but what are your thoughts on feedback as to who leaves it first. I myself feel that the buyer should leave it first. This assures the seller that the card was received and they are happy with it. I recently sold a card and the buyer says he will leave feedback when I do. Here is his actual letter to me.

"Great card, fast payment. I was happy.

If I receive positive feedback, I return it. Sellers should leave feedback as soon as payment is received, as my end of the deal was satisfied. If not, the seller is paranoid or lazy. I hope you are not either, as I would like my feedback to increase, as I am sure you do as well.

I do not buy again from sellers I have not received feedback from.

The card is registered in my set, and there it will stay."

I totally disagree with him and feel the buyer should leave it first.

What are your thoughts?

Teemu

GoSoxBoSox · January 6, 2005 2:42AM

IMO, the seller should leave feedback as soon as the payment clears. the buyer should leave feedback as soon as he receives what he has paid for.

Nice to see ya Tom.

spacktrack · January 6, 2005 2:49AM

I fully believe that the seller should leave feedback first. The buyer has fulfilled his responsibility by remitting timely payment and communicating with you as the seller regarding payment and shipping info. At this point his part is done and the seller should evaluate him based on that. After the buyer receives the item, he can evaluate the seller's job in fulfilling his responsibility to accurately portray the item and ship it in a timely fashion. If at this point anything problems arise, i.e. not happy with the stated condition, slow shipping, poor packaging, any level-headed buyer would contact the seller. The seller will continue in his responsibility to the buyer and afterwards the buyer can leave feedback evaluating the seller.

It is my opinion that sellers who wait to "make sure the buyer is happy" are the ones who worry about how they portrayed their item or about the service they provide. Feedback is a tool for the eBay community to learn about buyers and sellers. As a buyer I have purchased items that were grossly misrepresented, possibly searched, or severely damaged due to extremely poor packing. I notified the sellers before leaving feedback but each time left a neutral or a negative, depending on the case, as a method of communication with future buyers. Both sellers retaliated despite good communication and timely payment on my part. Sellers who do not leave first are often the biggest offenders when it comes to retaliatory feedback. It is an instinctive reaction for them to drop a neg back on a buyer since they did not leave feedback for the buyer yet more so than it is to say nothing and forget feedback.

This a great flaw in eBay's feedback system. I do not leave feedback for sellers that do not leave feedback first. The only exceptions are with big dealers have automated software that return positives as soon as they are left. I check every seller's "Feedback Left For Others" page to see how often they leave it and whether or not they retaliate unfairly. I do not need the hassle.

My two cents.

spacktrack

thefootballcardstore · January 6, 2005 2:51AM

Per eBay:

Leaving Feedback
Just as building your reputation is important, so is it for the buyer. Make sure to leave feedback for your buyers after you receive payment. In difficult situations, try and work things out first with your buyers before leaving negative feedback. Remember, feedback is permanent.

__________________________________________

We always follow eBay etiquette, unless the buyer wants us to ship to an unconfirmed address, which a lot of sellers won't even accept.
But it isn't madatory. As a buyer, we just leave it when the cards is received and never check to see if we received it or not.

bobsbbcards · January 6, 2005 2:56AM

I was going to type a bunch, but after I read spacktrack's reply I decided that what I was going to say had already been written.

Ditto.

yawie99 · January 6, 2005 2:58AM

A rare Teemu-Tom sighting! Hola!

When I sell, I virtually always leave feedback upon receipt of payment. I suppose it leaves one defenseless, so to speak, but I think the good karma it generates outweighs that. When a seller leaves the first feedback, he or she is more likely to have a happy customer. At least that's true for me: When I buy, I'm much more likely to leave positive for a seller who has already left me feedback than I am for one who hasn't.

I guess I'd be OK with a seller who explicitly stated something like "I'd appreciate it if you would leave positive feedback upon receipt of the item - I'll be more than happy to reciprocate," but I'm not a fan of the assumed quid pro quo feedback style.

That said, I almost never request feedback unless it's an eBay noob with no history of leaving feedback. In such cases, I'll maybe send a polite e-mail with a link to make it easy on the buyer.

Teemu · January 6, 2005 3:15AM

Hello guys,

I've been hibernating.

I guess you've answered my question. I'll leave feedback. I guess my thinking was that if the seller leaves it first he kinda leaves himself open to something bad. My outlook on it is I send alot of packages to Canada and you never know if they are gonna get the card. It is a way to know they received the card for me.

I appreciate your input guys.

Tom

1420sports · January 6, 2005 3:18AM

I agree with all the statements made. As a matter of fact, I am currently in a similar situation. I paid via PayPal the same day, I received the card just as quick, and still have not left feedback. Why? None was left for me. It may sound silly, but I will not buy from a seller again if no feedback is left. And I certainly will not leave it first .... unless I am a seller.

RepublicaninMass · January 6, 2005 3:25AM

Some selelrs only leave feedback, once it is left for them, to me this is BLACKMAIL at it's simplest form. I always leave when a buyer pays, ans always leave when card is recieved. I also wont buy again if they dont leave feedback

boggs301012 · January 6, 2005 3:29AM

I have to echo everything said spacetrack is 100 % correct . And the last statement is is blackmail they the sellers wait til you leave it first.

James

AkbarClone · January 6, 2005 3:33AM

Seller should leave first. The buyer has to come through with his end of the bargain first by paying. The seller should then acknowledge that the buyer has completed his part of the deal.

If a seller has some questions about a buyer (due to feedback received or feedback left by the buyer for other sellers), then he may choose to wait a little bit after shipping--maybe send the buyer an email after a week or so to see if the buyer received the item and is happy.
When I buy an item from a seller, I pay within 24 hours using Paypal unless they don't accept Paypal. Since I have almost 3,800 feedback (all positive), I would think a seller would have no problem leaving feedback first--yet some don't.
I feel they do not appreciate my business, and thus I will not buy from them again.

In a few cases where seller did not leave feedback, I would send them an email saying I "received the item(s) and am happy. Thanks for a great transaction". That should clear any doubts about the status of my feelings.
I have also bought from at least 1-2 dozen board members here who sell on eBay--and all but one has always left feedback--and they always received positive feedback in return. The one seller who did not has not seen any of my money since. His loss, not mine. I sent him a PM saying I was happy, but he choose to ignore the feedback leaving. I am a huge fan of multiple and repeat buys from the same sellers who offer great product and service, but that one seller won't see me again. Feedback is part of the service in my opinion.

I won't beg or ask for feedback, but I do feel feedback is important--especially if a negative needs to be left. If someone is scamming others, it is our duty to warn others. Unfortunately many are afraid to leave negatives because they are scared of retalitory negatives. But that is what the "response"is for, to explain it is an unwarranted retalitory. I usually research feedback on potential sellers that have some negatives. It is usually easy to see which ones may be unjust, and is also interesting to see the responses the seller may have left. A few negatives will not sway me from buying from an otherwise reputable seller.

ajw · January 6, 2005 3:35AM

<< <i>I totally disagree with him and feel the buyer should leave it first.

What are your thoughts?

Teemu >>

I respectfully disagree. If I win an auction and pay via paypal in four hours, what reason does the seller have to not leave me positive feedback immediately?

skigropple · January 6, 2005 3:37AM

On either side of the transaction I do not care who leaves feedback first. When I buy and receive my item in a timely manner and the condition quoted I leave feedback and move on because the transaction is complete. When I sell I leave feedback after hearing from the buyer or within a week of the delivery of the item without hearing from the buyer because at that point the transaction is complete. I do not hold my feedback hostage, just like all ebayers I have hundreds more completed auctions than feedback received and my feedback left for others is a lot more than my feedback received. Before you jump the gun I have only received one neg and I help NARU him a long time ago because he never paid.

Jim

jimtb · January 6, 2005 4:13AM

I mostly buy on ebay. As soon as the product arrives, I leave feedback. Often, the big sellers only leave feedback AFTER the buyer has left it for them. It's kind of a reminder.
Jim

JonB · January 6, 2005 4:33AM

When I sell I usually go ahead and leave feedback when I receive payment, but...

I do clearly see the reason for waiting until the buyer leaves feedback and for this reason...

I sold an item on ebay several, several months ago. The buyer promptly paid via paypal, never asking for a shipping discount bigger than the one I already give for purchasing more than one card.

Sometime later (after he had received the cards, and I had long since left him positive feedback) he left me a negative feedback stating my shipping prices were too high. I never have understood this. First off, why bid on an auction if you think the S&H is too high. Secondly, why not email the seller before you pay and try to work something out. And thirdly, I would have refunded some of his money just to avoid a negative if he was really that worried about it. But he never gave me a chance to work out any sort of deal with him, basically he just decided to leave me a random negative for no reason.

BUT... Since I left him a positive the day he paid, I had no recourse and could not do him the same favor and leave a negative.

I can clearly see why some sellers would want to wait until the buyer receives the item, and leaves positive feedback, then the seller knows the buyer is happy with the entire transaction, and both people can be left a positive without fear that the buyer may randomly decide to leave a negative.

Plus what if the card gets lost in the mail. If the seller issues positive feedback when the buyer pays, he can't do anymore. Its not the sellers fault the card got lost in the mail, and in most cases the seller would work something out such as a full refund, or sending another card. But even if the seller issues a full refund, the buyer may decide to leave a negative even though the seller was not at fault. If the buyer doesn't except the full refund and doesn't leave a positive, the seller should certainly have the right to leave a negative since he wasn't at fault either, and did all he could by issuing a refund.

just my 2cents worth

koby · January 6, 2005 4:34AM

seller

Teemu · January 6, 2005 5:00AM

JonB

That was my point. I am a collector and not a dealer. I fully understand the dealers point of view in waiting till it is left for that very reason.

I am absolutely amazed to see how many people say the seller should leave it first. Like you said, you have no recourse if you've already left it first.

Tom

spacktrack · January 6, 2005 5:00AM

There will clearly be anomalies throughout regarding experiences of sellers who leave positives only to be left neutrals or negs later by the buyer.

These often come without warning or explanation. However, eBay encourages people to read feedback profiles for a reason. Most people with understand that a neg is retaliatory or baseless.

I listed six dozen items before Christmas on UK eBay as an American seller. I specified worldwide shipping because I knew the items would be wanted by US and UK buyers alike. eBay provides conversions to US buyers for items listed in foreign currency. To miss these conversions you have to be borderline retarded IMO.

I left positive feedback for a US buyer who paid instantly with Paypal. Paypal as well converts the funds so that you can see what you are paying in US dollars. After he rec'd his item he left me a neutral stating that it was tricky of me listing in Pounds Sterling instead of US dollars. In an e-mail to me, he called me shady, unscrupulous, conniving, and stated that I preyed on eBayers who did not read the conversions.

Do I wish I could turn around and say something on his profile regarding his behavior? Sure I do. Will someone reading my profile understand the ignorance behind his comment? I would bet so.

He paid me, he e-mailed me quickly letting me know he would pay and was looking forward to his item. It was a case of buyer's remorse/ignorance, but what can I do.

I think when you reach a certain feedback point, the positives outweigh the negatives and people are smart enough to evaluate a seller based on the comments rec'd/

spacktrack

WinPitcher · January 6, 2005 5:54AM

Seller

1967topps · January 6, 2005 10:50AM

Teemu,

I agree with you even if we are in the minority. Some buyers find it hard to believe, but I wait for them
to say in feedback they got the card and it was as described, nicely packaged, quickly received, etc.

They want me to leave feedback for them as if to say "payment received."

The way I look at it is if they are going to NEG me for something (like once some guy complained
it didn't get there in time for Christmas, even though I made absolutely no promises about the
timeliness of delivery) I dont look silly by having left positive feedback saying that he was wonderful to deal with just because
he paid right away.

A neg for a neg is fair, still, isn't it

I tend to say 'if there's a problem contact me, if things are cool please leave feedback'. That intends to
try to work out any problems before they go bounding for the negative seconds after opening the package
on December 26. Even with 1000 feedbacks a couple knuckleheads negatives keep you in the 99% which
is great for fielding percentage only.

1420sports · January 6, 2005 11:11AM

As a few point out the instances of retaliatory feedback, how about those sellers who get feedback first and then do not leave any at all???? There are many times that has happened to me, so now I check my feedback profile to see who has left feedback. Once that happens, I leave it.

acowa · January 6, 2005 11:39AM

Tom,

Shipping to and from Canada is a pain. FEDEX is profiting from my pain. Half of my packages end up banged around by some customs agent who has no clue.

BTW - I have spent a ton of money upgrading that beautiful 1964 Hockey set that you sold me. I have half a set of extra PSA 6's and 7's if you want to start one up again. How's the chase for 1954 PSA 9's coming?

Regards,

Alan

Virtualizard · January 6, 2005 12:10PM

Life is too short.

I don't even look at feedback any more. As a seller, I leave it as soon as I receive payment (a little slow this week with a couple 100 auctions - sorry). As a buyer, I leave it as soon as I receive the item.

Why is this such a big deal? I have received 1000s of positive feedbacks (no negatives) and I've left 1000s of positive feedbacks (a few negatives). If the other party satisfies the terms of the auction (buyer or seller), why would you hold feedback hostage? Grow up!

JEB.

Dhjacks · January 6, 2005 12:30PM

I strongly feel the seller should leave feedback upon timely payment.
I also get really irritated when I receive a message from the seller letting me know that they will leave feedback after I do.

WinPitcher · January 6, 2005 12:55PM

Leave feedback for (insert name) if you have already received payment for this item.

Leave feedback for (insert name) if you have already received this item.

What EBAY suggests

helionaut · January 7, 2005 2:54AM

As a seller, I leave FB when I know the transaction is complete, meaning both parties have received what they promised. If the buyer leaves me FB, I leave FB. If he sends me an email saying he got the cards, I'll leave FB. If it's been over 60 days and I've heard nothing, I'll usually leave FB. Some people see this as holding FB "hostage" but it's not. I don't require the buyer leave FB first. I just want to a modicum of protection for myself and my perfect FB from nuts. I've had this policy for years, and I include a note in my packages saying,"Let me know when you receive this." I've never demanded FB, and I've never sent any kind of notes to anyone asking for it. Still, I've left about 20% more FB than I've received. Nothing's perfect. Maybe if ebay implements a FB "escrow" system it'll improve things for me.

ydsotter · January 7, 2005 6:56AM

I won a $350 wrist watch the other day. PAID immeadiately... I overnighted a postal mo within 12 hours... I had an excellent rapport with the seller. I liked him a lot.
I received it quickly.. and it was better than advertised... I am so happy. I feel like I won a psa 8 1941 Playball ted williams for $350...

and the seller emails me and says he will leave me feedback once I leave him feedback...
I was so offended.
My feedback profile is over 1600 and I have never received a neg or a neutral.
I paid quick...
and he wanted me to leave the feedback first? come on...
I felt insulted.
I was a dream customer... and what he did was cheesey. It made me feel like he didn't appreciate my business... and that he was somehow better than me...

now I have a sour taste in my mouth about the guy... and what a shame... I might have spent another $1000 with him over the next month or two... but not now. It ^%$^% me off that much...

anyways... those are my rantings and ravings about who should leave feedback first...

I fully believe that the SELLER could leave feedback first.

#1 The buyer could have bought anywhere... and they chose you. SELLING is a Privilege in my eyes... buying is also... but not as much as selling...

#2 What is the buyer's obligation? As far as I am concerned... It's my duty to pay quickly... whether I like the card or service has nothing to do with whether I deserve positive feedback...

#3 I will not leave feedback for a seller until I get feedback first. When they write me and whine about not receiving positive feedback
I tell the reasons #1 and #2... I have not bought again from people who see it differently. It annoys the ^%$%$ out of me.

#4 It's about trust... and the buyer trusts the seller first. The buyer wins the auction... blindly sends money... Positive should be left for them... period...
then seller ships item... buyer receives it... positive feedback should be left for seller.

minibeers · January 7, 2005 7:47AM

As a buyer and a seller, I agree with helionaut.

I didn't realize how many people take this feedback thing so seriously. I would be over 1000 now if everybody left me feedback, but they don't and I don't pester anyone about it. I have 416 at 100% and, at this point, I don't care if anybody leaves me feedback or not. I figure it will all happen naturally and I don't have time to keep up with who has and who hasn't given me my feedback due.

relax

mb

pandrews · January 7, 2005 7:54AM

i agree with Helionauts post..

as for selling being a "privilege".. well, eBay charges sellers per listing.. eBay doesnt charge buyers at all..

edit - and as a buyer, i leave feedback as soon as i get the item.. i dont even bother checking to see if the seller has left me fb or not.. i got one the other day from a card i had bought in October.. i'm sure i probably left the seller feedback as soon as i got the card..

ydsotter · January 7, 2005 9:31AM

I think hellionaut does make a really good point... if the transaction is complete and the seller leaves feedback when he knows the item has arrived safely...
then that's just as valid as receipt of payment... sounds like this method is also in the buyer's best interest...

After 5+ years of eBaying I am just so sick of sellers who are so arrogant... and behave like they are doing me and the world a great favor by selling something that I could buy from someone else... I really look at the quality of a seller as much as I consider the item itself... If it's a rarer 1/1 item.. I may swallow some crow and buy from the guy... but in general... I won't.

I still think that selling is a privilege... Whatever ebay charges...
I think that anyone in any competitive business needs to view their business and customers as a privelege... customers can always buy someplace else... whether it's an oil change, a set of speakers or a psa 9 1974 Dave Winfield. You need to have good customer service if you want repeat business... and many customers feel that once they have paid or said that they received the item... that they deserve recognition and gratitute... first...

If the seller waits for the buyer to leave feedback... then it seems that they do not appreciate the business and that they do not trust their buyer... It just makes them appear arrogant.

In my own opinion, buying is also a privelege... and buyers can be arrogant also...

I imagine power sellers and eBayers who have been ripped off and unjustly negged might have a different opinion... because a feedback profile can be an important selling tool and not worth putting in jeapardy over giving some anal newbie a positive feedback as soon as funds are received...

But... when a person with 1000+ feedbacks and no negs pays you immediately... I think you ought to extend your gratitute and leave them a positive right away... or as helionaut suggested... as soon as you hear the item arrived safely and they are satisfied etc...

I still find so many auctions where the seller describes the item in one vague sentence and then posts a 3000+ word essay on their strict selling policies and procedures... all in CAPS WITH EXCLAIMATIONS!!! and threats...
I often find people on this site poking fun at that...

other turn offs are huge shipping fees, not listing qualifyers, listing NMMT HB on a EXMT card and descriptions that claim bgs is the strictest and best grading service...

CoachTom · January 7, 2005 9:44AM

As a seller, I feel like when I receive payment, the buyer is done with any responsibility related with the transaction. I will leave feedback as sonn as the payment is verified.

As a buyer, my feedback is 90% based on the condition the item was packaged. I agree with the post earlier that a nice transaction is ruined if the item is damaged from poor packing. I ask for it every time I buy something through the mail. I do look to see what, if anything, has been left for me.

RayDBonz · January 7, 2005 2:20PM

When you agree to purchase an item on E-bay you are entering into a legal contract.

When the buyer pays for the item, his contractual obligation is met and feedback should be left by the seller. It's only common courtesy and serves to alert the buyer that payment has been received and/or acknowledged.

Once the item is received, the seller's obligation is met and the buyer should leave feedback. This also lets the seller know that the item arrived safely & was satifactory.

It really is that simple & straightforward. No need to get all wrapped around the axle worrying about some artificial "feedback rating". I've gotten fed up with sellers who won't acknowledge prompt payment with a positive feedback. I usually send them a note "card arrived today, thanks" and delete the entry from my e-bay list without leaving feedback for them. I will buy from them again if they have something I want, it doesn't bother me that much! Life's too short to let morons upset you! They can perseverate about their precious feedback rating all they want while they down their daily Prozac.

1967topps · January 7, 2005 2:37PM

I don't live or die about feedback (any more)

Whether I have 1000 or 9000 positives, and a rating above 99%, who cares any more?

Are you more likely to do business with the 9000 pos/2 negs or the 1000 pos/2 negs.

Besides what does anyone benefit if I buy 10 cards from the same guy and then there are
ten consecutive feedbacks from the same seller saying the same exact thing

When you're trying to get established as a seller I understand the desire to get over a hundred or so.

in the 10 thousands, who the F cares?

E-bay Feedback- Who should leave it first?

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