help with 1878-S Morgan VAM
nesvt
Posts: 2,214
Picked up four 1878-S Morgan dollars last week. Have identified two... a VAM-8 and another VAM-17. Can't figure out the third coin (haven't looked at the 4th).
Have included some pictures. Thought the engraved wing looked like a couple in the VAM book.
Went through the VAMs with double D in DOLLAR, but couldn't match anything.
The VAMs with quadrupled LIBERTY and/or eyelid and nostril issues, don't have double Ds.
The closest I got was a VAM-30. Any ideas?
Obverse-
LIBERTY quadrupled (left, right, top, bottom)
Doubling on 7 in date (hub defect?)
chip in first 8 on right outside between loops
profile near nose looks doubled
nostril doubled
E R slightly doubled
point on 4th star broken
eyelid at least looks doubled
Reverse-
Engraved wing
R in TRUST is NOT broken
double D in DOLLAR
S slightly shifted left and tilted left
Have included some pictures. Thought the engraved wing looked like a couple in the VAM book.
Went through the VAMs with double D in DOLLAR, but couldn't match anything.
The VAMs with quadrupled LIBERTY and/or eyelid and nostril issues, don't have double Ds.
The closest I got was a VAM-30. Any ideas?
Obverse-
LIBERTY quadrupled (left, right, top, bottom)
Doubling on 7 in date (hub defect?)
chip in first 8 on right outside between loops
profile near nose looks doubled
nostril doubled
E R slightly doubled
point on 4th star broken
eyelid at least looks doubled
Reverse-
Engraved wing
R in TRUST is NOT broken
double D in DOLLAR
S slightly shifted left and tilted left
0
Comments
But I like your pics.
Herb
<< <i>Sorry can't help you with the VAM........
But I like your pics.
Herb >>
Thanks. I need to work on the lighting!
Which subvariety of v8 do you have? One has the obverse of v28 while another shares the obverse of v47. Also, my 1878-S collecting buddy told me there's a recent discovery in a new VAM shares the v8 reverse. I'll have to check on that one to see which it is.
The v8 that has the v28 obv will have these markers. . .
chip near curl below ear
chip on leaf
The v8 that has the v47 obv will have these markers. . .
chip near 4th right star
scratches near bottom boll
Jeff
Semper ubi sub ubi
My VAM-8 has the 47 obverse. I didn't know this until I checked your pictures. Thanks again. Just wondering... if it's a different die "pair", why aren't there two VAM numbers (like 8A and 8B or 8.1 and 8.2)?
Confused in D.C. (Bill)
<< <i>I've got a bunch I can't figure out from the Encyclopedia. Is there a website or something you guys use? Thanks,
Confused in D.C. (Bill) >>
I've been using this site for photos and descriptions of updates. I'm also ordering the updates to have printed copies.
<< <i>Thanks Jeff. Great info and pictures. The VAM-30... why is there no mention of the double D, or eyelid, or nostril issues? I only matched by the engraved wing and quadrupled LIBERTY. I trust your opinion and already labeled it... just wondering if I missed some details.
My VAM-8 has the 47 obverse. I didn't know this until I checked your pictures. Thanks again. Just wondering... if it's a different die "pair", why aren't there two VAM numbers (like 8A and 8B or 8.1 and 8.2)? >>
I'm not sure why the doubling is not mentioned other than Leroy Van Allen didn't think it was worth mentioning. Maybe you can persuade him to revise the listing!
I inadvertently stumbled across the difference with these two v8 obverses. I sent them to Leroy Van Allen and he didn't feel there were significant enough to distinguish them as two seperate VAMs. He did, however, update the description to note they shared obverses with v28 & v47. I personally call them v8A (obv v28) and v8B (obv v47). Maybe if we get enough momentum on these subvarieties, we can get Leroy Van Allen to change them.
The other VAM that does have the same reverse as v8 is the v85. So if you find a v8 coin that doesn't have a v28 or v47 obverse, it might be the v85.
Jeff
Semper ubi sub ubi
<< <i>I've got a bunch I can't figure out from the Encyclopedia. Is there a website or something you guys use? Thanks,
Confused in D.C. (Bill) >>
Hi Bill,
Well, when I first started I found a lot of this thoroughly confusing and some of it is still confusing (can someone please explain to me what the difference is between 1878 v115, 199.x & 198?). I was fortunate enough to meet another VAM collector via eBay who collected mostly 1878-S Morgans. He kind of took me under his wing and showed me what he knows and helped me along with understanding some of this stuff. Now, a couple of years and a few hundred 1878-S Morgan dollars later I have a good set of many of the 1878-S VAMs and some identifying pictures to go with them. I haven't updated them in a while but I need to do so. You'll probably find that a number of VAM collectors keep their own notes/images on VAMs since the nuances among them can be highly confusing. Plus, if you ever decide to put out a book (like a few members here), you already have a bunch of the work already done.
Jeff
Semper ubi sub ubi
<< <i>... I still have one more 1878-S to attribute. I can't believe my luck over the last week. I found two antique shops. One was filled with 1878-S Morgans, the other filled with 1921's (all mints). I was paying $15-25 at the first shop. The second only wanted $8 -10!!!!! I'll have to post some pictures of the 1921-D VAM-1AG I picked up. >>
If you need any help with the 1878-S, just post some pictures!
Jeff
Semper ubi sub ubi
<< <i>If you need any help with the 1878-S, just post some pictures!
Jeff >>
I need some assistance. I tried for a bit on my own but will never refuse help.
Engraved wing, partially broken R in TRUST, double 7 in date, double LIBERTY to left, double D in DOLLAR at bottom (but seems like all my 78-S's are double-D's), ear slightly doubled on right outside, over polishing or lines near right wreath leaf on reverse, polishing line to right of ribbon on reverse (just above branch). I was thinking the engraved wing looked like a VAM-48, and it also has the partially broken R. The 48 has a high mint mark tilted to right. Is this high and tilted?
Here are some close-ups.
<< <i>Sounds like you found Morgan collector heaven. Two antique shops with coins? I hate you! >>
It's kind of funny. I think I'd have to drive overnight to find a coin shop, but I've had luck in 4 out of 6 antique shops within an hour from home. None of the small private shops have had anything for me. I've been finding stuff in the consignment shops where there are dozens of dealers set up in one building. None of the sellers have been there, just one or two employees. The last place I was in was real friendly. She piled up a few dozen coins on the counter, gave me a loupe, and a seat.
Jeff
Semper ubi sub ubi