Saint Collecting

DRSAINT

I have been collecting Saints for a fairly short time now. I have about 20% of the set in MS64 or greater at this time.
I believe I am dealing with some good dealers, presently.
I am always looking for additioanl names of quality (ethical, experienced, and reasonable) dealers to expand my choices.

Any feedback is appreciated!

RYK

Pick two dealers and stick with them. You will get better service, better pricing, and a better chance for "first shot".

KentuckyJ

> I am always looking for additioanl names of quality (ethical, experienced, and reasonable) dealers to expand my choices

Who are you already dealing with? Names mentioned in previous threads re good dealers usually have nice Saints in their inventory.

Good collecting in 2005!

KJ

Julian

I would always be happy to help you.

Don't forget to watch the auctions for coins that you are missing.

Look at the coins, in person, or have them examined for you. There is a possiblity of finding a missing coin, and making a good buy on it. As it gets more difficult to find the coins, you will probably not be able to make an advantageous purchase.

saintguru

I don't think limiting yourself to any number of dealers makes sense. Really good coins are hard to find. If someone finds a good one you want to be the first they call with it. So putting out a want list early in the game does no harm. Just stay with reputable dealers who guarantee their coins with no excuses...it's a tough but fun set.

Stuart

DrSaint: If I were you and just starting a collection of Saints, I'd get to know SaintGuru (JB) and try to purchase some of his duplicates, because he has an awesome collection of $20 Saints like this one (photo courtesy of SaintGuru from the Forum):



There are several other very knowledgeable Saint Collectors, and Julian's offer to help would also be worth pursuing. Julian Leidman knows virtually everyone in the business, and is a great dealer networking contact.

Best of luck to you in your collecting endeavors!!

saintguru

Thanks Stuart! I have recieved an email from one of the world's leaders in the series regarding the Saint you pictured and he suggested it could have a shot at MS68!!! I'll believe that when I see it.

Other than the "overgraded" Wells Fargo 1908's and a handful of High Reliefs, there are only 2 Saints graded 68 in the entire series!

roadrunner

The more dealers and collectors you interact with the quicker your learning curve. You don't want to get 1/2 way through a set of this caliber and find out that your coins tend to be low end and you paid top end prices. Monsterman's philosophy to set collection is the kind of one you may want to follow. Constantly get feedback on your actual and potential purchases. Attend major auctions and shows to size up the available coins. Don't be in a hurry. It's easier to lose money from poor purchases than it is to make money from good ones. There's always another saint around the corner too.
Buy the sleepers first before they become pricier.

roadrunner

MrEureka

The more dealers and collectors you interact with the quicker your learning curve.

Very important and very true.

So putting out a want list early in the game does no harm.

Not true. The more people out there looking for you, the more expensive the coins become.

Just stay with reputable dealers who guarantee their coins

Meaningless. What exactly do you expect a dealer to guaranty that isn't already guaranteed by a TPG?

I'll add one more cautionary point. It's very easy to build a complete collection of Saints. However, once you become expert in the series, the job becomes incredibly difficult because very few coins will meet your standards.

roadrunner

Andy, that last sentence is pretty much true for any series, don't you think? Once you become technically aware in your specialized series, one realizes that a majority of what is graded should be avoided. As I mentioned on the forum earlier I had a pair of rare date saints show up in my area and was chomping at the bit to see them fresh back from PCGS. They had been buried supposedly for over 70 years. Imagine my surprise when they came back MS64's and had the biggest hacks on Miss Liberty and the eagle that I had ever seen on a saint graded MS63 or higher. One would have needed a flat tip screwdriver to duplicate one of the hits. Do better date Saints get than much leniency?

Good point about not necessarily trusting one or two dealers. How about those guaranteed buybacks at 90% or 100% of the orig buy price? I don't see those as often now but in reality, any such promises are worthless.

DrSaint, I would be very careful about already having 20% of the saints and having to rely heavily on "trusted" dealers.

roadrunner

tradedollarnut

That's an awesome Saint!

saintguru

Thanks TDN....

As for grading tough dates rr, they are VERY VERY tough on grading ms65's...even 64's in the good dates. What was the date of the two "hacked" coins that you got ms64's on??


Nowhere's a REALLY RARE ONE!! Try to find a 1913 ms64 that doesn't look like it was in a blender...this is a 65....POP6/0.

roadrunner

Saint Guru the 2 coins I saw were 1931's in PCGS MS64. I couldn't see either one in the holders. If they were common dates they'd have to called them MS64's imo.

roadrunner

saintguru

RR...an interesting issue. The "Fab Five" 1929-1932 are unusual coins. Since NONE were officialy circulated, but merely made available at the cashier window at the mint or by mail order, they sat in bags in Mint vaults from day one. They usually show no rub or typical lustre breaks, but DO have "cuts" from being tossed in the vaults. There is clearly a dispensation for these, because PCGS/NGC knows that it's the way they are, but for a few ultra rare GEMS that were snatched right from the mint for collectors. You will find a ms65's or 66's with a few cuts, but magnificent surfaces....I guess an example is in order...

1931 ms66...surfaces and color/lustre are unbelievable...but there are a few "cuts"



(Photos by Mike Printz/Whitlow Assoc.)

tradedollarnut

I notice that Dr Duckor's missing gem 1929 is coming up at FUN.

roadrunner

Saint Guru, how about a cut nearly the width of the widest sun-ray, and nearly as wide as the eagle's breast? Each coin had one of those. One across Miss Lib's body and the other right on the eagle's breast? But at least one of these pieces did have that ultra-fresh look you commented on. That's why you're the expert and I'm a newbie. PCGS obviously forgave the coin for these whacks. But in my mind it makes no sense to give a coin leniency because of storage. No different then letting 90% of the existing "Mint State" bust halves get by with obvious rub because of how they were stored.

Your 1931 has what appear to be very superficial hits. Looks very impressive. Thanks for showing that.

roadrunner

mrearlygold

GREAT photos!


Tom

saintguru

rr..the late date coins are generally GEMS with the cuts...I guess that the standard had to be changed because clearly they were pristine, other than the hits. I'd guess that it's a unique exception, but in this series you have to let "history" have it's due. Deep cuts will prevent a high grade..you are correct that the ones on the 1931 are in fact, quite shallow. The picture is so good (Mike Printz) that it hides nothing. I wish EVERY coin pic was like this. You could actually almost buy coins from the pic.

jpkinla

I just wish MY coins had photos like this! Great pictures JB! Is this guy for hire to take photos?

BTW, if anyone is interested in a 1926-d Saint in PCGS MS64 or a 1929 Saint in PCGS MS64, I have extras of both available! Please PM if you have an interest.

I will be at the FUN show and would love to meet any Saint collectors.

My Saint Registry Set

roadrunner

Nice registry set JPK. And it's interesting all the different sources you used for your set.

I have to agree that Mike's photos are good enough to buy from.

roadrunner

jpkinla

Roadrunner,

I like to spread it out and have spent a great deal of time looking for this stuff. I don't believe you can just work with one or two guys. You will always pay more that way!

My $10 Indian Gold Registry Set

mrearlygold