1934 Peace Dollar -- Micro D and Medium D -- Pictures Attached and Pictures added on 3 additional co

Coinhusker1

Does anyone have close-up photos (or links to such photos) of the two different types of mint marks on the 1934-D Peace Dollars? I've done Google and Yahoo searches and had little success. Any help would be appreciated.

Update: Attached are pics of the coin I am trying to attribute. It appears to be a DDO, but I am not familiar with the mintmarks. Based on descriptions I have read, this would appear to be the "micro" D, as it is not filled in, but would like input on this.

Wolf359

Just look on eBay...easy to spot them.

morgannut2

Buy the Vam books at the next show or order online, if you're serious about VAM collecting. Pictures of D's on pages 436 and 437 , 4th edition VanAllen and Mallis. They pay for themselves with the first rare vam you find.

Coinhusker1

ttt See pics added to initial post.

Wolf359

I need the whole reverse to be sure. But the mintmark is filled on VAM-3.

Coinhusker1

<< <i>I need the whole reverse to be sure. But the mintmark is filled on VAM-3. >>



Here is the whole reverse. It has crud on it which I hope NCS can get rid of.


1934-D Rev

Coinhusker1

Here is another one I have:









The doubling of the 9 is really cool on this one. Again, the mintmark has a clear spot in the middle, but, I guess, could be considered "filled" relative to the Micro D. I have no point of reference so any expert opinion is appreciated (and educational!!)

Wolf359

Ok it'a micro D....I think. Why there's a spot in the middle I don't know. The key to Top 50 VAM-4 is the doubling on the spikes in the tiara and the micro D mintmark not the motto. I've owned two VAM-4's and neither had a spot in the middle of the mint mark that I noticed.

If the spikes are doubled it's VAM-3 or VAM-4, depending on the mintmark. If not, it's another DDO.

Coinhusker1

Thanks for your comments.


Here are close-ups of the spikes for both coins. They appear to be doubled.


First Coin:




Second Coin:





Where's the best place to order the VAM book? (i.e. coin dealer, Amazon, etc.) Thanks Again.

greghansen

Actually its the last 2 rays at the back of the head that are the dead give away for the DDO. They are doubled in a major way. You can see it with the naked eye at arms length. I've attached a file of an obverse shot of the DDO. Look at the tips of the last 2 rays on the right. Thats your 'pick up point' on that. On the VAM 3 vs VAM 4 its tough to differentiate solely on size unless you have one of each in front of you. I've posted a side by side photo which helps some. The main 'pick up point' I use on the VAM 3 vs 4 on the reverse is to see where the right edge of the mint mark lines up with the left pillar of 'N' above it. On the more common VAM 3 the pillar of the 'N' if extended down would nearly intersect or touch the right edgo of the 'D' mintmark. On the rarer VAM 4, the pillar of the N would pass to the right of the mint mark.

'Dats how I do it and I think its the easiest way to learn it. Based on your pictures, I can't see the last 2 rays to see if it is a DDO, and I can't see where the mint mark is in relation to the 'N' in ONE so I can't call that either.

Coinhusker1

Greghansen, thanks for your post. I think this and the other posts has helped clarify things for me.

I actually, beleive it or not, have 4 1934-D coins I am trying to attribute before sending to NCS/NGC. The images of the 2 that I posted were the ones I thought had the strongest doubling of the date and motto, but I really had no idea until now that the big kahuna is the doubing of the tiara!! Fortunely, one of the others coins has that doubling.

What threw me off is that, per NGC, they attribute "VAM 3 DDO Medium D motto" and "VAM 4 DDO Small D motto" which is what I thought I had. They also attribute "VAM 3 DDO Tiara" but do not specify Medium D or Small D.

Following below are close-ups of the Tiara and the Mintmark (with "ONE" in the picture) for each of the 4 coins. Based on Greghansen's comments regarding the position of the MM relative to the "N", it appears all 4 are the Small D. Further comments are welcome (and appreciated)!


Coin 1: No Doubling. Mintmark more filled in than others, but appears to be left of the "N".






Coin 2: Doubled Motto and Date, per prior posts, some slight doubling at top of tiara.






Coin 3: Doubled Motto and Date, per prior posts, some slight doubling at top of tiara.






Coin 4: Doubled Tiara!!:

Shamika

greghansen

My comments on the position of the small D as a helpful diagnostic applies ONLY to the 1934-DDO and differenting between the VAM 3 & 4. There are other micro-D's for the date....and there are other medium D's variety where the medium D mintmark appears further left than it does on the VAM 3. My comment about using the 'N' as a tool in helping to differentiate, ONLY applies to the VAM-3 & VAM-4. It IS NOT intended to be a guide to helping you determine when you have a micro vs. medium D on any other variety for that date. Sorry for any confusion.

Your bottom coin posted is definately a VAM 3 or 4. The reverse picture being taken at an angle and so close up, makes it bit more difficult to get a 'scale' of the mint mark relative to other things around it, but it looks to be in the right position for a VAM-4. I would encourage you to pick up a circulated VAM-3 at your earliest opportunity. They can be found without much difficulty and sell with little or no premium in circulated grades. Once you have the VAM 3 in your hand, and can compare it side by side to a VAM 4, the differences in size and position of mint mark are readily apparent. Good luck.

TonedPeaceNut

So --- no doubling on the profile is necessary for a VAM3 or 4?

I thought what "made" this VAM was the doubling of the profile?????

And I wouldn't use the position on the mintmark as a good indicator as to whether its a 3 or 4 -- look at the size and whether the mintmark is filled. Micro D is very sharp and clear. Mediums are more blob like.


TPN

Coinhusker1

<< <i>My comments on the position of the small D as a helpful diagnostic applies ONLY to the 1934-DDO and differenting between the VAM 3 & 4. There are other micro-D's for the date....and there are other medium D's variety where the medium D mintmark appears further left than it does on the VAM 3. My comment about using the 'N' as a tool in helping to differentiate, ONLY applies to the VAM-3 & VAM-4. It IS NOT intended to be a guide to helping you determine when you have a micro vs. medium D on any other variety for that date. Sorry for any confusion.

Your bottom coin posted is definately a VAM 3 or 4. The reverse picture being taken at an angle and so close up, makes it bit more difficult to get a 'scale' of the mint mark relative to other things around it, but it looks to be in the right position for a VAM-4. I would encourage you to pick up a circulated VAM-3 at your earliest opportunity. They can be found without much difficulty and sell with little or no premium in circulated grades. Once you have the VAM 3 in your hand, and can compare it side by side to a VAM 4, the differences in size and position of mint mark are readily apparent. Good luck. >>



Thanks again for your comments.

What I am still confused about is the difference between "Top VAM 3 DDO Motto" and "Top VAM 3 DDO Tiara" attributions listed by NGC. Any further insight would be appreciated.

Peaceman

Sorry I've been away for the holiday. Hopefully I can shed some light here. The only coin that can possibly be a VAM 3 or 4 is the picture of the 4th coin. Here's how you would be able to attribute it:

1) Last 2 rays in the tierra are strongly doubled.
2) The face profile is doubled. Use a loupe and a good light source to see it.
3) On the obverse the D in GOD can be seen with the naked eye to be doubled with the top of it being more pronounced. The "WE" is also doubled to the right in the W and E.
4) Also on the obverse (and sometimes hard to see on worn coins) she actually has a mustache just above the lip. It's really doubling.
5) The position of the D is high and right next to the ray's tip. Vam 3's are very large and completely filled and more to the left and down.

There is no date doubling on either of the 3 or 4.
All of these must be present to attribute it as a 3 or 4. You can have a 1934-D that has doubling and not have one or 2 of the items mentioned above. It's then just a 34-D DDO. Here is the positioning of the VAM 4 right from a NGC slab. I have never seen it located anywhere else. Hope that helps. If you want to see a coin, go to ebay number 3943188730.


Here's a VAM 3 if you want to buy one to know what it looks like.

Coinhusker1

Peaceman, thanks for the info.

My coin appears to have the 5 attributes listed, so we will see what NGC says!

Are the other two DDOs (doubled date and motto) in the VAM book, but perhaps not in the top 50? I'll get the book anyway, but if you know offhand let me know. Thanks again.