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1909VDB MATTE PROOF AT FUN AUCTION

SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum
I was going to wait until next week to post this but with bidding already at the $2k level I decided to do it now.

Heritage is auctioning lot #5501 at the Fun show in Fort Lauderdale in two weeks. It is a 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln cent in PCGS PR62RD. Let me give you a little background. This coin is one of the rarest of the entire Lincoln cent series, business strike and proof. Mint records indicate that ONLY 420 were sold. In the 18 or so years of PCGS, NGC and ANACS slabbing less than 160 have been slabbed by all three grading services combined. With crackouts I have no doubt that no more than 120 exist in slabs today. Some of you who frequent this board own one or more. I have been following the auctions and sales of this coin for many years. It took me 8 years to be able to get my example. The coin just is NOT advertised for sale in any advertisements. If it is not in one of the slabs it is probably NOT the real thing. The REAL 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln cent has three key diagnostics that must appear on legitimate examples.

The thing that makes this particular auction of the coin interesting to me is that it is a "low grade" example. In fact only two PCGS coins (one mine) and no NGC coins grade this low. I am going to learn whether my assumption that this rare coin can experience spirited bidding or not. So far 6 bids have been made and the reserve, if any, will be posted next Wednesday. The PCGS price guide doesn't list values for PR62 coins, but does show PR60 and PR63. PR60 is listed at $780 in RD, $585 in RB and $520 in BN. PR63 is listed at $2,500 in RD, $2,000 in RB and $850 in BN.

Now it has always been my belief that these quoted values for the low grade examples are less than what a knowledgeable potential buyer would be willing to pay for an example of this coin. In fact I have not seen an example graded this low appear for auction in the past. I am very confident that since PCGS graded this coin it has the diagnostics. The few examples of this coin that have been auctioned in the past three or four years have almost all sold for over $4,000 with a couple of the top graded ones going for over $20,000. If any of you proof registry set owners want to get ahead of me in the 1909-1958 registry, this is a good opportunity. And I wish you luck. I'd love to see lots of bidding and one of our group win it. Steveimage
My True View Album

My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry

Comments

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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Steve, it's simply one of those coins that will never go down in value . . . period.


    As far as pricing, the last couple of years have really pushed the prices up.

    I'll bet it would take $100k to draw out one of the two PR67RD's. (But those two guys probably wouldn't sell them at any price)

    A 66red will cost you $30-$35k.

    The shocker for me is that 65red brought right at $20k a couple of months ago !!!!

    Mine came from a board member, and I'm very happy with it. It has lovely peripheral toning.
    Doug
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    BWRCBWRC Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭
    Here is a pretty cool 1916 Matte Proof I own. It is in a PCGS PR65BN holder. Pop. 5/0 The coin has some pretty wild colors.
    image
    Brian Wagner Rare Coins, Specializing in PCGS graded, Shield, Liberty and Buffalo Nickels varieties.
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    BWRCBWRC Posts: 1,447 ✭✭✭


    I owned a PCGS PR65Red 1909 VDB Matte Proof in 1993. I paid $3,300 for the coin and sold it for $3,750. It was an average quality coin for the grade. That sure would have been a keeper!

    The 1916 Matte Proof appears to be even a tougher coin to locate in PCGS PR Red as evidenced by their population report.
    Anyway, those are two tough dates in that short series.
    Brian Wagner Rare Coins, Specializing in PCGS graded, Shield, Liberty and Buffalo Nickels varieties.
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    TimListonTimListon Posts: 49
    I own two PR65RB matte proof VDB's that I bought about 10 years ago, for about $2000 each. They are really quite nice, and today would fetch $10,000 pretty much sight unseen. Of course the red examples have seen greater price appreciation (but we've been down that road before). I'm not complaining (much).....
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Tim, you shouldn't complain!image

    The 66rb prices have been outrageous as well, and no doubt why two more got slabbed recently. Wonder if we will see them hit the auction block in the near future?

    I'm glad this coin is getting the recognition it deserves in the marketplace. It should be the ultimate Lincoln (MS or PR) to own.
    Doug
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm glad this coin is getting the recognition it deserves in the marketplace. It should be the ultimate Lincoln (MS or PR) to own. >>



    Doug, I agree with you on the 1909VDB Matte Proof, however I believe the 1990 No S will become a "bookend" piece for the proof series of Lincoln cents. Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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    TimListonTimListon Posts: 49
    I believe the 1990 No S will become a "bookend" piece for the proof series of Lincoln cents.

    I think that would be a real shame. Granted it's a very rare coin, but the 1990 No S is an "error" coin. The '09 VDB matte proof on the other hand is a real classic. It's a first-year coin, a wheatback, and was produced on purpose as a presentation piece. And no two look alike. The '09 VDB matte proof, and all the matte proofs for that matter, should be considered the ultimate Lincoln cent classic.
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    jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭


    Tim,

    I love the Matte Proofs as well (not really sure why I don't collect them..?). I share your thoughts about them vs. the 90 no S. The 90 no S just doesn't do anything for me, but a pretty matte proof lincoln, like your icon, now that's a pretty coin.

    Jack
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    Still two days until the reserve, if any, posts and the coin is bid up to $3k with the juice. Total 8 bidders. My lowly PCGS PR61RB gets more appreciated by me every day. Folks, these coins are really scarce if they show the diagnostics. Good luck to anyone going after this one. Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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    TimListonTimListon Posts: 49
    Jack, wait until 2009 and I can help solve your problem -- your utter lack of any matte proof Lincoln cents. I will probably sell one of my sets, as my oldest starts college that year. And guess what? That's the 100th anniversary of the Lincoln cent and of the '09 VDB matte proof, the classic.

    At least that was the excuse I gave my wife 10 or 12 years back when I put the sets together. She thought I was totally nuts, paying an unheard of price of around $2000 for the VDB's (PCGS PR65RB) and about the same for the 1916's (PCGS PR66RB). Those cents are closing in on $10K apiece right now. And all four are in old holders and have been on ice since they were first slabbed. Upgrade potential?

    I'd put up a picture of my oldest if I knew how......
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tim, I think it only fair to warn you that college costs are rising faster than MPL's!
    Doug
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    The reserve has been posted on this coin at $3,000. The last bid was at $2,600 + the 15%. What this means is that if you want the 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln cent in PCGS PR62RD you must bid at least $3,250 + the 15% or $3,737.50 to get it! It will be very interesting to me to see if any of the 8 bidders who bid this coin up to $3k are willing to continue. One thing is VERY clear to me. The price guides including CU's here need to revise upward the values they place on this coin in the lower grades. It is obvious to me that the seller of this coin wants $3k to sell it. It should be very clear to anyone who wants a legitimate example of this rare proof coin that they need to be prepared to pay the price. Is it worth it? IMHO the answer is yes. These kind of coins do NOT go down in value over time, Just like the 1909SVDB, the 1914D, the 1922 plain, the 1955DD and the 1990 No S proof, they will continue to go up or maybe in a down market stay the same. Again, good luck to anyone going after this one. Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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    EastsideEastside Posts: 92
    I have been interest in this coin for a littlewhile now and as you say
    nobody advertises them, or has them, and internet piks are cool but not one in hand, but You Mentioned Three points to distinguish if it matte proof or not and thats the info I've been looking for, no local dealers I know seem up on this particular piece,

    So ?

    Eastside
    Promote The Hobby and Make it a Positive Experience for all, Remember That this Hobby Can Be Fun & Profitable & Profit is Always FUN
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    Steve (Eastside)
    Glad to provide this information. It is key to making sure you have a REAL 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln Cent.

    1. On the Obverse there is die polish lines on and in front of Lincoln's nose.
    2. On the Obverse there is a single die scratch behind Lincoln's coat, toward the "R" in LIBERTY.
    3. On the Reverse there is a crescent shaped die chip to the right of "M" in UNUM.

    Some 1909 Matte Proof Lincoln's (the non VDB type) also have the same obverse diagnostics because the same obverse die was also used when the switch to the non VDB was made for the proofs. The reverse diagnostic however is unique to the VDB version. You need a good 10x to 17x scope to see these diagnostics and it helps to have pictures to reference.

    Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eastside, here is a link to another thread where we discussed the diagnostics along with pics.

    Click Here
    Doug
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    Doug,
    Thanks for reviving that thread and the pictures of the diagnostics.
    It is great that this forum can provide collectors with valuable information about certain rare coins.
    Steve image
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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    EastsideEastside Posts: 92
    Great, You guys are super, I can't thank you enough,
    if you knew how long I've wasted with search engines
    and surfin to get a image only but no diagnostics or
    expert input on the Number # 1 Lincoln.

    Thanks Again

    Steve

    Eastside
    Promote The Hobby and Make it a Positive Experience for all, Remember That this Hobby Can Be Fun & Profitable & Profit is Always FUN
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    Back to the bidding on this coin. With the reserve at $3k at least two of the original 8 bidders have bid the coin up to $3,600 (Over $4k with the juice). Will this coin sell for over $5k? We will know in a few days. A great week coming up at FUN. Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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    BcsicanBcsican Posts: 1,068
    First time back for me in quite some time to the boards, gotta love all the information that these threads supply, and the knowledge that each contributes, great job on passing along the information,
    BCSICAN

    "Because I can"

    myurl The Franklin All Old Green Holder Set
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    The internet bidding closed last night at $5,000 with two new bids. That's $5,750 with the buyers fee! The coin goes on the block late this afternoon at the end of session #1 and just before the two highlight auction sessions of the FUN show.

    People have projected that the sky's the limit for many coins at this auction. Well, as far as the 1909VDB Matte Proof Lincoln cent in the grade of PCGS PR62RD, I'd say this is a new record price. And the LIVE bidding may push it up higher. What's a PR66RD worth now Doug? Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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    DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Steve, I have to say I'm stunned!
    Doug
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    SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    Coin went for the internet bid of $5,750 including the juice! Hope the winner is a board member and is in the PCGS Registry.

    Prices for all the Lincoln cents, both business strike and proof have been posted on the Heritage site. Prices are W O W !!!!!! If these are any indication of what the other sections of the Fun auction bring we will probably see some all time auction records broken. The 1917 MS68RD Lincoln went for $37k. Steveimage
    My True View Album

    My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
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