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Do you prefer PSA 9 (OC) or PSA 8 NQ

As I was returning to hobby this summer, I made some of the common mistakes that I now understand many of us have made. Namely, I bought a handful of (OC) cards, believing from the way the SMR guide is listed left to right, that a 9 (OC) is somewhere in between a 9 and a 10. (I told PSA that they should consider a different way of displaying qualifyers, since it can leave one to a misunderstansing.....But, I digress.

Among my early purchases were a 73 Schmidt PSA 9 OC, 75 Yount PSA 9 OC and a 70 Bench PSA 8 OC. I have little interest in selling what I buy, but curious for opinions on sending them back for a review. I know that a 8 NQ is far from a gurarantee, but is the OC such a bad blemish over time......

Happy New Year to all.

Steve
steve

Comments

  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    I would take the straight 8, however most cards get 9 oc or psa 7

    now depending on the eye appeal it would depend
    Good for you.
  • Yikes . . . I shudder to hear the story . . . as I made the same mistakes early on, but . . .

    I did send my Mantle 9 OC back in for grading "without a qualifier," it came back a six. But, it still wasn't a good looking card being that it was off center.

    The trend now with almost all collectors is to take a card (even in lesser grade) well centered. I'm sure most of the responses on this will be the same, "Give me a lesser grade as long as it is centered."

    I think PSA should get rid of the OC qualification and others as well and grade the card 1 through 10. If it is off center, give it a lower grade.
  • KnucklesKnuckles Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think PSA should get rid of the OC qualification and others as well and grade the card 1 through 10. If it is off center, give it a lower grade. >>



    I agree and I think they should give cards that have rough cuts a lesser grade as well however I think it's too late to do this since a lot of people would have cards with crappy edges graded as 9's.
    image


  • << <i>."

    I think PSA should get rid of the OC qualification and others as well and grade the card 1 through 10. If it is off center, give it a lower grade. >>



    This makes sense to me too. In fact, this is the way that SGC does it; they don't give ANY qualifiers; hence the off-centeredness (or other flaw) is IMPLIED in the grade.
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't mind OC cards as long as they look pretty good. Resale is a different story now. Also, certain OC's or slight OC's go cheaper on ebay.

    image

    I got this Mantle for a few hundred bucks and am very happy with it.

    Happy New Year
    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • KnucklesKnuckles Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭
    Nice card Mike. I don't mind a card being OC'd vertically.. I do if its hoizontally or both though.
    image


  • << <i>I think PSA should get rid of the OC qualification and others as well and grade the card 1 through 10. If it is off center, give it a lower grade. >>



    I agree, too. PSA should drop the qualifiers and just down grade (mark down the grade) the card. Why put a qualifier such as 9(OC) if the grade w/out a qualifier is a 7 or 6. So this means the card with qualifier such as OC is just partly graded. They only graded the corners edges and surface --> no grade for centering. Just doesn't make sense to me.

    I got confuse too with the qualifier. I thought 9 (OC) is just half point down like an 8.5 since they don't give half grades. Is there such a thing as 10 (OC)?? What if everything is 10 (edges, surface, corners) and centering is OC? How would PSA grade that? I think they really should drop the qualifiers (OC, MK, ST, etc) and give the TRUE 4 point grading of the card.

    RIP Snow
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    No 10 (OC). A 10 should be a "perfect" card, and if it's off center in any way, you lose the perfection of the card. That 10 (OC) would be a 9 (OC) or an 8 at best.

    I don't care for the qualifiers either, but I have seen some really sharp 9 (OC) cards I wouldn't mind owning...
    image
  • NickMNickM Posts: 4,895 ✭✭✭
    Not all OCs are alike. A 9(OC) could be 70/30 one way and 50/50 the other, or it could be 99/1 both ways.

    Under PSA's unqualified grading standards, a card that's worse than 90/10 one direction would get no better than a PSA 1. The market has never valued a card of this nature as a Poor or Fair card, so I think that PSA's grading standards are better for reflecting the special treatment that the market gives off-centered cards.

    Miscut cards would also automatically be Poor or Fair if qualifiers were eliminated. While a front miscut is heavily downgraded, there are back miscuts on certain sets that don't significantly impair the presentation of the card (I have a '55 Bowman SGC 84 common with a L-R miscut of the back that doesn't affect any text or the special elements of the design - PSA would give this card a 7 (MC) if the grader noticed the back miscut, but no one would seriously consider this card to be Poor or Fair.).

    (PD) cards are the most subjective as to whether the qualifier is applied (especially in the case of light print snow or fish eyes). Here, the absence of a qualifier might wel lead to PSA easing up on their standards for what is acceptable in a certain grade.

    The (MK) qualifier is hugely important IMO. Most collectors won't touch a marked card unless it would be very difficult to find one unmarked. In this case, the qualifier is more important than the technical downgrade, because it notifies collectors that this may be a card to avoid entirely.

    I can recall only seeing 2 (OF) cards ever, so I can't say what effect those have, except that I have no idea what sort of grading standard you would use for the focus of a card.

    As to the question whether I'd prefer 9(OC) or 8, that depends on the prices of both and the appearance of the 9(OC).

    Nick
    image
    Reap the whirlwind.

    Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
  • jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
    I agree with Stone and Nick. It depends on the degree of OC and overall eye-appeal. Nice Yankees Power Hitters, Mike!

    Here's my example of a PSA 9 OC that could be 8 unqualified because the OC is not that bad. But I like the fact that its Mint qualities are recognized, especially in a very tough card like a '53. (Yeah, I trot Eddie out every time this question is asked. Forgive me!)

    image
  • I brought this up the other day in one of these forums. I think is was much better when you could request no qualifiers and they dropped the card one grade. A close 9OC is as good as any 8. I recently sent in 5 1978 walter paytons, none perfectly centered and got 4 9OC and a 9. If i covered the grade up, you couldn't tell the difference with a ruler. Now when i go to list these 9OC's on ebay because there is a two point reduction on registry, I'll be lucky to get $10 for them. A straight up 9 would go for at least $60. I sent in 3 1978 staubach as well and they all came back 9's. ??????
  • Wow! What a beautiful Matthews, and nice Power Hitters, too. Everyone is making good points in that it depends on the appearance of the card. But, if the Matthews was mine, I'd take it as an 8 vs. the 9OC. Powerful looking card. I have two 1933 Sport kings, Doolittle and Ace Bailey that are 8OC, but they are gorgeous since the centering is off vertical not horizontal. This prompts me to resubmit them with a request to get them reviewed for 7s.

    P.S. That Matthews card knocks your socks off!!!!!!!!!!
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not to beat the OC to death but here is another card which I like that I got for a fraction of the cost of a true 8 that I am pleased to have:

    image

    I know we have discussed this topic but it is interesting. The graded set that I am pursuing consistently has commons that are extremely well centered go for above SMR but the ones that are 64/40 go anywhere from 55 to 75% SMR. I'll take the poor man's PSA 8 any day. Now if money were no object, I would sit around and fight for perfectly centered 9's. And to be able to do that, I will be needing the:

    image

    image
    Mike
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    I've heard this advice before many times and think it applies very well here:

    "Buy the card, not the holder"

    But to answer your question, I, too, would rather have a straight 8 than a 9OC.
  • I just had my December special come in and thought I would get a nine or possibly a 10 on two of the cards both came back 9oc, what a drag!!
    image

  • I have an SGC graded 63 Fleer mays that is graded an 84 (7). The card is off centered left to right probably 70-30, maybe a little more. But the edges, surface and corners are 9 quality. I got the card off ebay but need to resell it due to a need for cash. Given that i came back to the hobby just a few months ago, i naively tried to sell the card to dealers in a local card show. Either they do not like SGC graded cards or they simply didnt like the off centering, but when i showed them the card they scoffed at it as if it was garbage. But of course, they were probably doing that so they can buy the card off of me for like $25.

    My point is i think for resale value, i would prefer to get a NQ since a lot of people dont buy the card but the slab. For anything else, it really depends on the collector himself. If a card is not severely off centered, has 8-9 qualities (like the mays card and the others shown in this post) on edges, surface and corners, and is a card i really need....then i would definitely take it.

    jr: And i have a mathews card with similar qualities but off centered the other direction. It is a PSA 6. Got it very cheap, though. Corners are not as sharp as yours, but it is 7 quality. It is probably a 8 or 7 with an OC qualifier.
  • I'm in the camp that has no problem with the (OC) qualifier. I feel it gives a more accurate assessment of a card. The fact that the registry deducts 2 grades seems arbitrary. Why not 1 grade? Why not 1/2 a grade? You have to buy the card and not the holder.
    We also read earlier that SGC did not reflect qualifiers on their holders, which is true. But SGC was also more lenient on centering. The market knew that and priced the cards accordingly.
    I find it ironic that we have multiple threads about the sometimes inconsistencies of PSA's grading, but than argue against qualifiers, which PSA uses as a mechanism for tighter grading and consistencyimage
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • softparadesoftparade Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I personally don't like the qualifer tag on a card. I took the advise of some of you and put a "NO QUALIFERS" note on my forms. Seemed to work out since I got the 46 card sub back with no qualifiers on any. A couple (1978 Topps McCovey, Fisk) were perfect cards except for the centering left to right. Sure enough they came back 8's, which is what I expected for a card that seemed flawlwss besides the OC.image

    ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240

  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Posts: 1,794 ✭✭
    What about a card like this? 9(OC) or 8(OC) or straight 7?

    image
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Buc
    Based on the centering and the quality of the corners, that card looks like an 8 or 9 (OC) IMO. But asking for the NQ is not always a savior. If that card were put on ebay, IMO, the card would not sell well as a 7 due to the centering. May not even sell at all unless the starting bid were a buck. The trend on ebay is to look for well centered cards in the grade that one is looking for.
    Just my take.
    Happy New Year
    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭


    << <i>If that card were put on ebay, IMO, the card would not sell well as a 7 due to the centering. >>


    Sad but true. As a straight 7, people will think it's a plain ol' 7 that barely skated by on the centering. If you claim it's a 9 in other aspects, they probably will dismiss it as the usual eBay hype. I think the 9 (oc) would do much better.

    In fact, I know it would. Earlier this year I sold a 1961 Mantle PSA 9 (oc) on eBay for a price that was closer to SMR 8 than 7. It was "aloof" of these boards who bought it. If it had been slabbed a straight 7, he and others would have thought it was a "slider" due to the centering and it might have fetched only 6 value. We're talking a difference of hundreds of dollars on that card.

    Anyway, I think sometimes 9 (oc) is a better idea than a straight 7, especially if the centering is not all that bad. The Mathews above is an example. Conceivably I might someday try to cross to a straight 8, but never to a 7. I wouldn't humiliate Eddie like that!
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    On the subject of centering, would you give this card a qualifier?

    image

    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,246 ✭✭
    Mike, that's a tough one. It sure seems OC to me, but maybe it's a really sharp 9 downgraded due to centering? That is one problem with not using the qualifier - it leaves the card's grade open to interpretation if it looks to be off center.
    image
  • To me, it depends on your reason for buying the card. If you are trying to put together a registerd set in PSA 8 or better than you'll have to leave the qualifiers alone. If you just want to add the card to your collection or building a midgrade registered set than qualifiers may be an affordable alternative. I am in the same school of thought that PSA made a big mistake with qualifiers and wish they never would have used them. What's the use of having the four areas of focus (centering, edges, surface, and corners) to determine a grade if it doesn't matter if one of the areas doesn't completely measure up to the given grade. Grading is subjective enough. Is there really a need to add more layers of subjectivity to muddle the mix? image

    Scott
    Registry Sets:
    T-205 Gold PSA 4 & up
    1967 Topps BB PSA 8 & up
    1975 Topps BB PSA 9 & up
    1959 Topps FB PSA 8 & up
    1976 Topps FB PSA 9 & up
    1981 Topps FB PSA 10
    1976-77 Topps BK PSA 9 & up
    1988-89 Fleer BK PSA 10
    3,000 Hit Club RC PSA 5 & Up

    My Sets
  • BillaBilla Posts: 210
    My ex could be a solid 8 . . . great rack pack, nice gloss, the image lays nicely, but I would have to give her a 9OM . . . for she is definitely "out of her Mind!"
  • jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭


    << <i>On the subject of centering, would you give this card a qualifier? >>


    Mike, I haven't done a L/R pixel count, but it looks to be within the criteria for PSA 8, although barely so. That particular card I would rather have as 8 than 9 (oc). To me it's a case-by-case thing.

    Maybe we should get on Oprah: "Off-Center Cards And The Weirdos Who Like Them" ... followed by "Women Who Sleep With Their Daughters' Boyfriends"
  • My ex could be a solid 8 . . . great rack pack, nice gloss, the image lays nicely, but I would have to give her a 9OM . . . for she is definitely "out of her Mind!"

    I think I dated her sisterimage
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is a close one guys...the other reason I bring this up is the pricing - not that anyone would be surprised but that card is a harder sell than a nicely centered 8.
    Good responses! You guys have taken them right out of the Stone193 playbook!!!

    image
    Mike
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    image


    this 52 bowman of billy goodman/jackie jensen is just a tad OC (top to bottom)
    Good for you.
  • jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
    Winpitcher, that is fabulous. I had a TV in the '70s that always looked like that.


  • I actually just had an auction end where I was in this situation...

    1960 Carl Yastrzemski RC

    Of course I got sniped in the last seconds, but I didn't want to go any higher than I already did. To me this looked like a nice example of an unqualified card. I couldn't find any closed auctions for a 9OC in the past year to compare, but this one ended up going for approximately $50 more than SMR for a 7. The T/B centering didn't look to far off from some PSA 8's out there, but it's a crapshoot.

    If that slab was a PSA 8 instead of PSA9 OC I obviously would have bid higher, but it's hard to drop the hammer with the qualifier staring back at you.

    Chris
  • DataDriven- You are correct. If that card was in an 8 holder, there would be little arguement and it would have gone for higher dollars. That card has great eye-appeal and was a tremendous value. The best part is that it's graded accurately. PSA shouldn't be held accountable for an 9OC card going for PSA 7 $$.
    I think the fact that for Registry purposes, PSA downgrades a card 2 grades shouldn't be a factor as to a cards worth. This is a classic example of "Buy the card, not the holder"
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • jayhawkejayhawke Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭
    Stone,

    I recall a PSA rep telling me at a show one time that if you the OC side can go inside the opposite side twice then PSA would give it an OC qualifier. Your Oliver looks close but probably a PSA 8 that would sell for less then a better centered example. I would pay more for a better centered PSA 7 though.
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Posts: 1,794 ✭✭


    << <i>Stone,

    I recall a PSA rep telling me at a show one time that if you the OC side can go inside the opposite side twice then PSA would give it an OC qualifier. Your Oliver looks close but probably a PSA 8 that would sell for less then a better centered example. I would pay more for a better centered PSA 7 though. >>



    If I understand you correctly, that can mean a 67/33 centering which could almost be a straight 9 but definitely a straight 8. My assumption is that PSA eyeballs these things anyway and it can't tell if it's 65/35 (9 NQ) or 67/33 (8 NQ).

  • Have any of you ever purchased a borderline 9OC and sent it in for a regrade without the qualifier to see if it would come back a straight 8?

    Scott
    Registry Sets:
    T-205 Gold PSA 4 & up
    1967 Topps BB PSA 8 & up
    1975 Topps BB PSA 9 & up
    1959 Topps FB PSA 8 & up
    1976 Topps FB PSA 9 & up
    1981 Topps FB PSA 10
    1976-77 Topps BK PSA 9 & up
    1988-89 Fleer BK PSA 10
    3,000 Hit Club RC PSA 5 & Up

    My Sets
  • Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,407 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Stone,

    I recall a PSA rep telling me at a show one time that if you the OC side can go inside the opposite side twice then PSA would give it an OC qualifier. Your Oliver looks close but probably a PSA 8 that would sell for less then a better centered example. I would pay more for a better centered PSA 7 though. >>


    Jay
    I pulled this card off ebay...I will not purchase an 8 this far from center...that was my point - these don't sell as quick as nicely centered ones. And as you stated which is what most would say: give me a centered 7 over a borderline poorly centered 8 NQ.

    thanx for the input guys
    your friend
    Mike
    Mike
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