What reasoning would you think dictates which service is chosen to holder an important collection??

keets

I received the NGC e-letter recently and it contained a description of several nice collections. The one that caught my eye was under the first heading: NGC Certifies Matte Proof Gold---BRS Legacy Collection Complete by Date and Denomination.

What I was wondering is this; what do you think causes a collector to choose a particular service for an imprortant collection such as this?? Our petty reasoning wouldn't matter. Things like turnaround times, slabbing fees and personal grievances must seem ridiculous to BRS, or are they?? Considering the color of a Matte Gold Collection, maybe the reason is the white background. Either way something like this must be what the two companies, PCGS and NGC, really use to gauge how they think the market senses things as far as grading services are concerned. It's logical that each company would hope to have the finest collections, the finest coins in their holders, right??

So what do you think prompts a collection like this to end up in PCGS or NGC, what drives the collectors choice?? BTW, if you didn't get a chance to look at any of the coins, you should. A Matte Proof $10 Indian is a sight to behold!!!!

Al H.

RYK

I have often wondered the same. I think the dealer who helps with such a collection must have some influence (does the dealer get a "cut" of the grading fee?). My other guesses would include:

1. Customer service and PR: perhaps one service or another takes special care, makes arrangement with Brinks for transportation, promises promotion on their website, etc. Since it is a feather in the cap of a grading company to holder a high-end collection like this, I expect that there are some perquisites for the owner of the collection.

PCGS, from what I have read, has fairly rigid rules about who gets a pedigree on their slabs (exception: Mad Marty). Perhaps, NGC is more lenient (ie. also Mad Marty).

2. Appearance: As you mentioned, some like the look of larger gold coins in the white background holders. I personally dislike the look of smaller size coins with the large white background. To each his own.

3. Grading, with an eye toward sales: In a given series, NGC may be perceived to be looser/tighter than PCGS and there may be a benefit to "maxing out" the grades for an upcoming sale.

4. The buyer's preference: Similarly, some series with limited appeal might have a handful of known collectors that prefer a certain slab. Putting one's coins in the preferred slab of the buying audience might help get the buyers interested.

With the range of collectors and dealers that participate here, we should be able to get to the bottom of this. Regrettably, Laura is away because I am sure she knows the answers.

morgannut2

As it's not for sale, the owner may just like the "look" of the holder and already have a few #1 sets in PCGS. I've noticed less reluctance to put nice gold in NGC than say Silver Dollars which many prefer for the accuracy (constancy) of PCGS, and the look. If I were a dealer, it would also be nice if NGC was friendly enough to put my failed PCGS crossovers back in the old NGC holders without a lot a hassels--but that doesn't seem to be the issue here.

wam98

Location may have had something to do with this collection. Not having the foggiest idea where this collection is located or the value, which is probably extremely valuable, would make one choose a convenient location IMO.

tradedollarnut

Those are nice coins that would have looked good in either holder.

I don't think it hurt the decision process that the 1885 proof trade dollar went up a grade. Which, btw, means that there are no longer any 1885 trade dollars in PCGS holders. The three currently certified examples are 66, 63 and 62 - all at NGC.

jom

<< <i>Those are nice coins that would have looked good in either holder. >>



Frankly, I think they look better in NO holder.

jom

kidd

Probably said WE`LL DO IT FOR FREE just for the advertising.

roadrunner

There's only one reason that I see....getting the highest grades.
If NGC will average out higher, they'll get the coins if all other things are equal. I think the Kaufman seated Proofs were a fine example.
NGC graded them much looser as a rule than PCGS would have.
That extra point on many coins made someone more money in the end. I don't buy any reasons that include how the holder "looks"
or advertising or what have you. It's usually $$.

roadrunner

nwcs

>There's only one reason that I see....getting the highest grades

I think this is the first priority. That is, between PCGS and NGC. We haven't seen any big valuable collection go into any other brand holder.

DHeath

Do collectors buying coins like these rely on the holder grade to determine their worth? I thought the number extant, how they compare to others seen, and their historical significance, old auction catalogs, pedigree, etc. were all important? Tell me it's not a competition driven by the label.

keets

troublemaker!!

al h.

RYK

Do collectors buying coins like these rely on the holder grade to determine their worth?

I have little experience in this matter. Earlier this year, the Duke's Creek complete Dahlonega collection was sold and switched from PCGS to NGC. Some coins even spent some time at NCS. What a shame! Many of these were finest-known Dahlonega coins that were already known and appreciated by southern gold enthusiasts. While the upgrade bonanza (link) may have "improved" the collection on paper, many original coins were ruined forever. To me, the whole thing was a disaster, and in my humble opinion (humble, as in, I could never afford any of this stuff anyway), the coins were not worth a penny more in their new holders and some were less desirable.

DHeath

I'm just kidding. I know collectors of classic rarities couldn't possibly be fooled by the holder. They'd be guilty of behaving like the modern and registry guys that draw criticism here on the boards. They're only interested in the more esoteric essence of the hobby, they're not chasing the buck. That would be make them no different than the guys selling State Quarters to some newbie for $200. Remember, these coins are different.


RYK - I agree, I'm just pulling a few bobbers.

keets

troublemaker with a point!!!!

al h.

KentuckyJ

> So what do you think prompts a collection like this to end up in PCGS or NGC, what drives the collectors choice??

I believe it is often, but not always, a simple business deal. You, or your rep, makes the collection known, takes a bid, goes with the better offer. Possible upgrades, turn around times, cost, etc., will obviously all factor into your decision on who will grade the coins. It's really no different than do you buy your planes from Boeing or do you give your order to Airbus? You weigh the deals and go with what you perceive is the offer that best meets your needs.

KJ

michael

roadrunner
Expert Collector

Posts: 4054
Joined: Jan 2002
Wednesday December 29, 2004 6:54 PM (NEW!)



There's only one reason that I see....getting the highest grades.
If NGC will average out higher, they'll get the coins if all other things are equal. I think the Kaufman seated Proofs were a fine example.
NGC graded them much looser as a rule than PCGS would have.
That extra point on many coins made someone more money in the end. I don't buy any reasons that include how the holder "looks"
or advertising or what have you. It's usually $$.

roadrunner

______________________________________________________________________________



michael

IrishMike

After you seperate the dealer hype from reality for the best of the best coins, it really doesn't matter which holder the coin is in unless of course you are chasing a certain registry fame. Coins that are near the top will sell well regardless of white plastic or transluscent plastic. I think the folks at NGC have taken the approach that coins in either holder are acceptable for their registry while PCGS fights the inevitable losing battle of only allowing their slabs into their registry. To say that their registry contains the all time finest sets is not true and if we are honest with ourselves we would admit that. Do you really think that the Hugon coins are any different or more valuable in a PCGS slab or the Lull Collection?

This business is like many others, contacts and money drive it. The registry has become a strong selling tool for many dealers and as the grading standards are becoming more and more similar, the registry game will become less important again. I don't know how you can argue otherwise with all the terrific coins and sets that are migrating to NGC unless you think these collectors are just dumb. I don't have any statistical information but what I am hearing is that the cycle of great coins having to be in PCGS holders to be properly graded is beginning to end.

BAJJERFAN

<<"To say that their registry contains the all time finest sets is not true and if we are honest with ourselves we would admit that. ">>

Only means its the all time finest in that registry system with maybe the exception of the top few sets. I'm sure there are some really nice Morgan sets that aren't in any kind of holder.