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1984 Fleer update - production numbers?

Does anyone know what is the actual production number for this update set? I know that 99% of all the set issues from the 80's-90's were overproduced, but this "appears" to be one of the few exemptions based on sifting through really old copies of Tuff Stuff and Beckett from that era. I was just wondering if any new information is available today.

Comments

  • CON40CON40 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭
    I think the best estimates out there say there were about 4000 sets printed and released.

  • sagardsagard Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭
    Based off populations of over 1100 Clemens in PSA 9 and 150 in PSA 10, I would guess the print run of that set is by no means limited. For comparison, the '85 Topps McGuire has around 4000 in PSA 9. The other comparison of a tougher issue is the '85 Tiffany McGuire which was limited to 5000. That issue has only 387 in PSA 9.

    If I were to make a guess, I'd go with minimum of 10,000-15,000.
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Based off populations of over 1100 Clemens in PSA 9 and 150 in PSA 10, I would guess the print run of that set is by no means limited. For comparison, the '85 Topps McGuire has around 4000 in PSA 9. The other comparison of a tougher issue is the '85 Tiffany McGuire which was limited to 5000. That issue has only 387 in PSA 9.

    If I were to make a guess, I'd go with minimum of 10,000-15,000. >>



    The 15,000 appears to be more likely to me, possibly more. Considering how investor conscience the hobby has become, I'm surprised we don't have any real information regarding this.
  • ctsoxfanctsoxfan Posts: 6,254 ✭✭


    << <i>Based off populations of over 1100 Clemens in PSA 9 and 150 in PSA 10, I would guess the print run of that set is by no means limited. For comparison, the '85 Topps McGuire has around 4000 in PSA 9. The other comparison of a tougher issue is the '85 Tiffany McGuire which was limited to 5000. That issue has only 387 in PSA 9.

    If I were to make a guess, I'd go with minimum of 10,000-15,000. >>



    I disagree. The 84 Fleer Update Clemens is one of the most heavily graded cards of the 80's, percentage wise. Try to find raw copies - most of them are already holdered. With the McGwire cards, there doesn't seem to be the same grading frenzy as with the Rocket, especially as of late. The 84 Fleer Clemens card carries the cache of being the 80's best RC (of any player) as well (there are far fewer of these cards than any Bonds RC).
    image
  • Brian48Brian48 Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭
    One of the earlier mags (I think it was Tuff Stuff) quoted a possible 20,000 as a guess, but this was only a guess and it has since become outdated as they no longer make the assumption. In regards to baseball, this appears to be the only set of the 80's (excluding the oddballs like the Tiffanies, Nestles, etc..) that may still hold up in value in the future. It'd be great know just how many were produced from an investment standpoint.
  • I have read before there was between 15 and 20K sets produced, however fleer did not do a good job of marketing these so many sat in the warehouses for years. What happened or if that is true who knows. most of the singles I have seen over the past 5 or so years have all been graded and this is a commonly graded set so the pop reports may reflect more of a percentage of the cards than most other sets.
    image
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,172 ✭✭✭
    Just like 1984 Donruss, I believe it was mythically underproduced. Sure, there may be fewer sets...but guess what...there is PLENTY to go around. Those sets have a mystic about them...thats why people look for them, hoard them, overpay for them. At least the 1984 Donruss LOOKS nice! 1984 Fleer is just plain boring! Ok, so I have to have one of those sets in my collection too....but do you really think there is a shortage? I highly doubt it!
    Some people are like slinkies..Not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you push one down a flight of stairs.

    yup
  • RedHeart54RedHeart54 Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭
    In retrospect, were there that many fewer '84 Fleers produced than any other early to mid 80s "update" or "traded" set? Are there THAT many more, say, '82 Topps Traded sets than '84 Fleer Update?
  • sagardsagard Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭


    << <i>In retrospect, were there that many fewer '84 Fleers produced than any other early to mid 80s "update" or "traded" set? Are there THAT many more, say, '82 Topps Traded sets than '84 Fleer Update? >>



    That is another great comparison.

    The '82 Ripken has 1300 in PSA 9. The '84 Fleer Clemens is around 1100 in PSA 9. The Cases came with 100 sets per case. Does anyone honestly believe they would have made less that 200 cases?
  • You want a real eye opener on quantity and price?
    There have been about 2,500 '84 Fleer Update Clemens cards graded in PSA 8, 9 and 10. The prices for those cards are $190 in PSA 8, $315 in PSA 9 and $925 in PSA 10.
    Now, go to the Pop Reports and Prices for ,let's say a 1952 Red Man Duke Snider. Oh, there are none, zero, not any, won't find them grades in PSA 8, 9 or 10. In fact, there are only 19 total Duke Snider '52 Red Man cards graded. Price for a PSA 7 five in existence (which there are none higher), $295.
    Point is, where would you invest your money?
  • aconteaconte Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭
    I'd rather have the 52 Psa 7 red man Snider. In fact if anyone is selling one I'll offer $400 for one.

    Send me a pm.

    aconte


  • << <i>You want a real eye opener on quantity and price?
    There have been about 2,500 '84 Fleer Update Clemens cards graded in PSA 8, 9 and 10. The prices for those cards are $190 in PSA 8, $315 in PSA 9 and $925 in PSA 10.
    Now, go to the Pop Reports and Prices for ,let's say a 1952 Red Man Duke Snider. Oh, there are none, zero, not any, won't find them grades in PSA 8, 9 or 10. In fact, there are only 19 total Duke Snider '52 Red Man cards graded. Price for a PSA 7 five in existence (which there are none higher), $295.
    Point is, where would you invest your money? >>



    Depends if you are investing your money or collecting.

    If you're a big Clemens fan, of course you are going to go with the Clemens. If you are investing, the smart money says the snider. But I'd suspect that a lot of people collect what they want because they LIKE the cards, just like there are a lot of people who invest in cards.
  • Very good point, Axtell,

    But don't we all collect the cards we like and then invest in them, too. Example, if we just liked Roger Clemens — who happens to be my favorite player — why wouldn't we just settle for a PSA 3 and get it for a good price. Nope, we opt for the PSA 9 or PSA 10, cause we want the best of our favorite player and a good investment.

    This is the fun in collecting: a) the search, the safari and the hunt to get the card; and b) getting it in the best condition. Like in good old Pennsylvania on the first day of buck season . . . everyone heads to the woods to get a deer, but darn it, they just don't want any deer, they want a ten-point or better!


  • << <i>You want a real eye opener on quantity and price?
    There have been about 2,500 '84 Fleer Update Clemens cards graded in PSA 8, 9 and 10. The prices for those cards are $190 in PSA 8, $315 in PSA 9 and $925 in PSA 10.
    Now, go to the Pop Reports and Prices for ,let's say a 1952 Red Man Duke Snider. Oh, there are none, zero, not any, won't find them grades in PSA 8, 9 or 10. In fact, there are only 19 total Duke Snider '52 Red Man cards graded. Price for a PSA 7 five in existence (which there are none higher), $295.
    Point is, where would you invest your money? >>




    You've only taken the "supply factor" in to account.

    You need to also consider the "demand factor".

    My guess is that if you take a random poll of people on the street, alot more people will know who Roger Clemens is compared to Duke Snider.


  • they made enough of them so that the cards value has essentially peaked and has nowhere to go but down. maybe a short term blip up with induction in the HOF, but destined lower in the long run. Simply too many high graded cards available.

    JERO
  • Re: "You've only taken the "supply factor" in to account.
    You need to also consider the "demand factor".
    My guess is that if you take a random poll of people on the street, alot more people will know who Roger Clemens is compared to Duke Snider."

    I agree 100%, more fans today know of Clemens than Duke Snider. However, with 2,500 PSA 8s, 9s and 10s of Clemens and zero of Snider, I think we can all agree that the price for the Clemens is way to high. After I read these threads, I went digging into the supply (junk) closet last night, and low and behold, amidst all the other junk, I have three unopened sets of the Fleer Updates!!

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