Interesting Statistic: How much does a complete set of PR70DC Lincolns cost?
DMWJR
Posts: 6,008 ✭✭✭✭✭
I thought I would browse the Teletrade and Heritage archives to see. Of the available dates in PR70DC (barring the 1963 problem coin), every available date hit the market in 2003-2004. The results?
If you were the lowest winning bidder on every date over the two year period, your set cost $20,455.
If you were the highest winning bidder on every date over the two year period, your set cost $75,904!!!!!
Doug
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Just one personal observation as well - it appears to me that a lot fewer PR70DC Lincolns have surfaced (from a production standpoint) in the past 60 days that the previous 6-8 months. A statistic I keep an eye on as well.
Wondercoin
Interesting point. I wonder if the PR70DC market is somewhat saturated, dropping demand and submissions? I also looked at the heritage auctions coming up in January and there is only one PR70DC up.
In contrast, you can buy all of the dates in PR69DC for about $300!
Wondercoin
I didn't include the 1964 pop 1 PR70DC because I have never heard of it selling. Know anything about this coin???
Mike
Lincoln Wheats (1909 - 1958) Basic Set - Always Interested in Upgrading!
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>
In contrast, you can buy all of the dates in PR69DC for about $300! >>
Wow!!
Great thread.
Another board member just let me know that the 1964 PR70DC sold on Teletrade. It sold in July 2001 for $6996. No picture is available.
Just my 2 cents - IMHO, they could both be "smart" purchases. The $300 price tag for the set in PR69DC is frankly sensational. To tell you the truth - I would seriously consider buying (100) sets myself if I had a place to store them for the next 10-20 years. I simply do not. Moreover, the overall quality of the PR70DC coins is sensational - I prefer collecting those myself (and bank storage is quite easy for a few dozen coins). Moreover, on the MS side, I would also love to get my hands on some of the freshly made top pop wheat Lincolns, but I might have to settle for the one grade under coins due to the same pricing environment. But, I would not say that the freshly made MS top pop wheats (using same relative figures) are not "smart" buys. I am simply not a "player" for them at this time.
Wondercoin
In connection with my personal set of PCGS Proof Memorial cents, I recently went through several THOUSAND PCGS-PR69DCAM Lincoln cents searching for "super high end coins". All dates from the late 1970's through the mid-1990's. It took me many hours of time to do this, but, I wanted to personally experience what a meaningful % of the PR69DC coins actually looked like and just how close these coins were to the quality of the PR70DC coins I have in my personal collection.
Results thus far - I found 4 or 5 potential coins that rivaled some of the PR70DC's I have in my collection. A couple were selected because they had wicked color actually. A couple were selected because they had near flawless surfaces - and certainly close enough to have graded PR70DC in my opinion. The other 99 44/100% of the coins were not even close to PR70DC quality IMHO. For those of you who have not devoted significant time to the proof Memorial series - let me be the first to tell you that IMHO true PR70DC Lincolns are not only very scarce coins, but beautiful coins as well. And, don't get me wrong - the PR69DC coins are also beautiful coins and perfect coins for most collectors to collect, from a pricing standpoint.
But, if anyone out there truly believes there PR69DC collection rivals a PR70DC collection, let's meet for lunch - I'll bring my loupe and a bunch of my PR70DC Lincolns and I'll show you why your PR69DC coins are simply that
Wondercoin
<< <i>In contrast, you can buy all of the dates in PR69DC for about $300! >>
That is 1977 to date EXCLUDING the 1981 type 2.
You add in the 1959 thru 1976 in DCAM even in PR67 and you have some more $$$ invested. No doubt in my mind that the PR70's are going down in price. My 1992 used to be worth $800.
I guess there is a certain amount of pride and enjoyment in acquiring these PR70 DCAM top pop coins for $20k or more. I find that I have just as much pride and enjoyment in owning my complete Lincoln cent business strike and proof collection acquired for about the same total cost.
What makes it all so great now is we can all get together on these forums, all with different goals and perspectives about coins, and be able to communicate and enjoy talking about our favorite hobby. No doubt that the PCGS Registry has added to this by allowing each of us, if we so wish, to display our coins and to also see the coins others have. Happy New Year everyone. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
1867:1052
Apr 7, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
Glittering deeply reflective fields. Heavily frosted engraved features. Well struck. The ultimate certified grade. A mere 32 have been certified Perfect by PCGS. Superb!
1904:1044
Jul 4, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
Full blazing mint brilliance. Glittering deeply reflective fields. Heavily frosted engraved features. Well struck. The ultimate certified grade. PCGS has certified Flawless a mere 36 examples.
1905:1058
Jul 5, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
Glittering deeply reflective fields. Heavily frosted engraved features. Well struck. The ultimate certified grade. A mere 32 have been certified Perfect by PCGS. Superb!
1932:1098
Sep 6, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
Full blazing mint brilliance. Ultra-deep reflective fields. Heavily frosted engraved features. Perfection! The ultimate certified grade. Only 39 examples have been PCGS certified at this level.
1934:1057
Sep 12, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
Full blazing mint brilliance. Glittering deeply reflective fields. Heavily frosted engraved features. Well struck. The ultimate certified grade. PCGS has certified flawless a mere 39 examples.
1943:1096
Oct 3, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
1949:1039
Oct 17, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
1950:1103
Oct 18, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
1958:1074
Nov 7, 2004 1992S Proof PCGS 70 DCAM
Not sure why prices did not get cut and pasted? I tried.
Wondercoin
Toby
But, if anyone out there truly believes there PR69DC collection rivals a PR70DC collection, let's meet for lunch - I'll bring my loupe and a bunch of my PR70DC Lincolns and I'll show you why your PR69DC coins are simply that
Perhaps if we break out the electron scanning microscope we can sort them even further?
I commend the participants who take the time to picture their coins. There have been a couple board members who have graciously offered to photograph some of my collections and I just may take them up on it, when the sets are finished (although my wife may not be entirely comfortable with the "moving in" part).
Wondercoin
My sense is that as more PR70 coins hit the market in any given date, the price will go down until either there is a bigger demand for the PR70 coin or no more are made. My 1992 was bought on EBAY in 1999 for $86. I wanted a PCGS perfect coin in my collection. That was the only reason I bought it. For my purposes as far as the post 1970's Lincoln proofs go, I'm very happy with PR68 & PR69 DCAMS. They look super to me. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Your "sense" sure didn't play out in your case - pop rose sharply and coin went up 500% in the past 4-5 years
Incidently, a few of the early 1980's cents in PR70DC sold around the time you bought your coin for a couple hundred dollars each as I recall (indeed, I may have sold one or two at the time). It was "scary" sitting in the Heritage auction room and watching them sell 18 months or so ago for $5,000-$10,000/coin!! Critics of moderns tend to always latch on to the $7,500 price tag and point out that the coin dropped 50%+ in the past year or two (which they did off those levels). What you seldom read is what Steve pointed out here - many of the PR70DC Lincolns are still "hundreds of percents" higher than prices 4-5 years ago. The history is always interesting and it becomes challenging for a collector, no doubt, when you have price swings of upwards of 500% - 750% over a 5 year period in any series.
Wondercoin
Steve, you are right. I was just keeping the comparision equal. The only coins I used in the calculation were the dates available in PR70DC (except the 1964). So the figures include 1973 plus 1977-date, but not 74, 75, 76, or 81T2. I have been seeing the 77-date sets going for about $325-$350. I think the 71T2 goes for about $100 and the 73 for about $130 in PR69DC.
So the comparative PR69DC set would be about $550, and not $300.
Mitch, thanks for selling me the only PR70DC I own, at a very reasonable price!! I just can't bring myself to drop big bucks on PR70DC's when my PR69DC's look so good. I would rather drop big bucks on some others like a super sweet 1966 SMS 67CAM that I bought just before Christmas!!!!! Woooo! It is a coin to die for. The seller is a collector/board member who lives near me and has a great eye. The thing it has that you don't see on SMS coins . . . real mirrors! Now that is a rare coin in the Lincoln "Proof" series.
Greg
Doug - You are very welcome. Now, could I ask you a favor and please sell me (at a reasonable price) your extra 1966 SMS Lincoln cent you replaced, as it is the last coin I need for my Lincoln variety set right now
Wondercoin
Greg: Around $400 for a common date coin. If you want me to pull a beauty for you when I get one in, just let me know.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"My 1992 was bought on EBAY in 1999 for $86."
Your "sense" sure didn't play out in your case - pop rose sharply and coin went up 500% in the past 4-5 years
What you seldom read is what Steve pointed out here - many of the PR70DC Lincolns are still "hundreds of percents" higher than prices 4-5 years ago.
Wondercoin >>
Mitch, You are 100% correct. In fact almost ALL the Lincoln cents, both business strike and proof have gone up during the past few years. I cannot say that PR70 or MS70 PCGS coins are not a good investment at this time. But as a collector with limited funds I have always strived for completeness of a nice looking set over cherrypicking a limited number of high grade coins looking for a super example that might turn out very profitable for me down the road. I KNOW that there is much greater profitability potential in securing a 1909VDB Matte proof Lincoln in grade PR66RD than in securing my example in PR61RB. But for me to remortgage the house to play that investment game is not my style or desire. Owning an example of this coin in whatever grade is what makes me happy. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
So I will just wait on the sidelines before I buy any more. I believe they have more room to fall - to about the $250-$300 level (maybe even lower). Are they worth a premium over 69's - definately yes. But not more than 15-20 times the value of a 69dcam - IMHO. I am thankful that I didn't go crazy and buy up as many 70's as I could find in the last 2 years.
To me, this appears to be a classic supply & demand scenario - fueled by the Registry. The high end Registry sets will demand the relatively few '70's currently available - price is almost no object. But as more 70's are made, the demand will soften and the price will fall until some type of equilibrium is reached. In the meantime, I am not buying 70's and focusing on other coins with greater long-term investment potential.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
But when you have the #1 Proof Memorial set.....you have the biggest Dic- !!!!!
Proof 69 is not squat.I guess most of us are just inadequate.
I guess I just don't know Jack Schit about perfect coins or being the King Stud.
stewart
I would probably be a buyer at about $300. They have come down a lot in a year. At some point in here they should be OK.
Greg
Mitch - I believe you. Still, it sounds like a hand selected very PQ 69DCAM set (for maybe $500?) is a better play than an average set of 70's at 25K. Of course, the best deal of all may be a set of PQ 70's...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Makes sense to me.
Wondercoin
How in the heck can there be such a thing as a PQ 70? That implies there's such a thing as an average 70. I thought PR70 or MS70 meant perfection.
Tim: In a nutshell - there are (2) components to a PR70DC grade - the "70" and the "DC". Your comment addresses the "70" portion of the grade only. Understand that the "DC" portion of the grade can include an average depth DC, a medium depth DC a heavy depth DC or even a super heavy depth DC (and myriad other labels one might chose to place on this component). Indeed, ANACS already designates heavy DC coins on their holder. The differences between ultra heavy DC and average DC are "night and day". The one time I set up at Long Beach last year, I displayed an exhibit of these very "different" coins in the same graded holder. The frequent comment I got was "why aren't some of those PR69DC monster DCAM coins graded PR70DC?" Easy - because the depth of cameo is to die for, but, the surfaces are not "PCGS perfect". Hope this helps.
Wondercoin