Are FS 1953-S Nickels over rated?
dbldie55
Posts: 7,735 ✭✭✭✭✭
Here is an example of one of the MS64FS coins on the Heritage Web site 1953 S PCGS MS64FS.
If you view the closeup of the reverse, the strike is horrible (but it has steps). I have a MS64 example with 10 times the detail on the reverse that I paid a dollar for (but does not have full steps).
How much should the steps over ride the rest of the Monticello?
If you view the closeup of the reverse, the strike is horrible (but it has steps). I have a MS64 example with 10 times the detail on the reverse that I paid a dollar for (but does not have full steps).
How much should the steps over ride the rest of the Monticello?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
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In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
Bwa Ha Ha Ha Ha....................
NICKEL TRIUMPH...NO STEPS
Yea, I agree the weak strikes are a bit of an eyesore.
PCGS is currently giving a two point bonus for the full step
over the non fullstep. Which I think is about right.
Which leaves the collector with a reasonable choice.
The fully struck fullstep 53-S does not exist, or is very very
close to nonexistant.
Regards, Steve.
1953-S ANACS MS63 5FS
The real question is... with all of the pop guides added together, how many of these coins are there in full steps?
I'll do some math... but, I don't have access to an ANACS pop report if one exists...
Current pop reports say there are potentially 13 MS64FS and 1 MS65FS coins in PCGS holders.
NGC says... awe well, so much for that idea... the NGC census is down...
Somebody check it out will ya?
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
In my opinion the ultimate Jefferson has a full strike and full steps.
The 53S in my collection is perhaps the worst coin in my collection. It has full steps with a weak strike. I consider this a placeholder until a better coin can be found. I do not consider this a MS64 due to the weak strike. The third party grading companies need to be more conservative in grading weakly struck coins.
I also believe giving a two point bonus for full step coins is justified.
Frank
My Jefferson Full Step Variety Set (1938 - Current)
My Jefferson Proof Variety Set (1938 - Current)
you how many poorly struck '54-S I've seen graded 65. Worse yet, how many Walkers in 66-68 with
no hand!! Graders sometimes get caught up in color or blemishes and ignore strike.
Last year I sent in a 1953P Franklin that was simply the best-struck for this date that I have seen
in 30 years of collecting, yet it came back a '64 because 1) it was brilliant, and 2) it had ONE reed mark
on the bell...go figure!
It may take years, if ever, to be able to complete the task, if we were to try to do it, or everyone with a 53-S in full steps could place a picture here of their own coin, with the partial cert # and we would have somewhat of a list to reference. It's sad that many other coins have this provenance due to rarity, but this one, and other top dawgs within this series do not.
Another question... just wondering off the top of my head... if people would be interested in a book like that of the top dawgs in this series as a guide... many of the stratosphere coins in this series sold this year... the only problems would be to get the cert #'s in order to track them if the picture included wasn't adequate and to possibly get the owners to allow their use in a format like this.
Just trying to think long term...
Steve
Edited to say: After looking at a few of these FS coins with pictures online and many, many other 53-S's, once again, it seems like the strike is weak on most of them. Again, I'm not dogging their owners at all. I think the grading companies have factored that in with the grades given possibly. Just a thought... maybe I'm wrong... but, I'll defer to the huddled masses for the concensus.
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
this topic has been discussed many, many times in the past. the problem isn't necessarily a poor strike as it is a strike with overused dies. if you look at both sides of the coin under the close-ups, you can clearly see the fatigue in the fields and starting to show in the devices. this is logical, since the fields receive wear each and every strike at a much higher degree than the rest of the die, hence, they wear first. next will be the lower portions of the devices----on the obverse, Jeffersons jacket at the fields and his temple. on the reverse, it's especially visible on the left side of the Monticello. believe it or not, i've seen worse.
it's ironic that others talk about better strikes with no step detail and/or lesser grades with Full Steps since those both are sensible if you consider the striking anomalies of Jeffersons. in the case of this well-worn die(or pair of dies, considering that the obverse looks quite faint, also) it should be remembered that even the crispest strikes rarely resulted in Fully Struck steps which means that area of the die would wear at a slower rate than the rest of the die, resulting in better detail.
it should further be noted that this kind of die wear is particularly noted on Nickel coinage, a reflection of the hardness of the alloy and the difficulty of full strikes. it resulted in removing the rays from Shield Nickels and along with a stingy Mint, helped give us all those sharply struck Bullalo branch Mint coins. it's also very problematic with Ike Dollars, but only the clads. imagine that!!!
al h.
Hows this one look?
Hope you can see it.
Regards, Steve.
Thanks for sharing it with us.
Steve
In memory of the USAF Security Forces lost: A1C Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 9/28/05; SSgt Brian McElroy, 1/22/06; TSgt Jason Norton, 1/22/06; A1C Lee Chavis, 10/14/06; SSgt John Self, 5/14/07; A1C Jason Nathan, 6/23/07; SSgt Travis Griffin, 4/3/08; 1Lt Joseph Helton, 9/8/09; SrA Nicholas J. Alden, 3/3/2011. God Bless them and all those who have lost loved ones in this war. I will never forget their loss.
The steps look pretty nice, but there are a couple of bridges that would keep it out of a pcgs fs holder. Fair strike on the obverse, but weak as typical on the reverse.
Enjoy your coins....
NICKEL TRIUMPH...BIG AIR
I agree that it would probably not be PCGS FS.
Hav'nt yet tried to slab it. Don't know that I will.
That's the finest 53-S I ran across in 25 years of chasing the FS.
and probably the finest non FS 53-S out there. (lucky me)
Regards, Steve.
<< <i>If you view the closeup of the reverse, the strike is horrible (but it has steps).
this topic has been discussed many, many times in the past. the problem isn't necessarily a poor strike as it is a strike with overused dies. if you look at both sides of the coin under the close-ups, you can clearly see the fatigue in the fields and starting to show in the devices. this is logical, since the fields receive wear each and every strike at a much higher degree than the rest of the die, hence, they wear first. next will be the lower portions of the devices----on the obverse, Jeffersons jacket at the fields and his temple. on the reverse, it's especially visible on the left side of the Monticello. believe it or not, i've seen worse.
it's ironic that others talk about better strikes with no step detail and/or lesser grades with Full Steps since those both are sensible if you consider the striking anomalies of Jeffersons. in the case of this well-worn die(or pair of dies, considering that the obverse looks quite faint, also) it should be remembered that even the crispest strikes rarely resulted in Fully Struck steps which means that area of the die would wear at a slower rate than the rest of the die, resulting in better detail.
it should further be noted that this kind of die wear is particularly noted on Nickel coinage, a reflection of the hardness of the alloy and the difficulty of full strikes. it resulted in removing the rays from Shield Nickels and along with a stingy Mint, helped give us all those sharply struck Bullalo branch Mint coins. it's also very problematic with Ike Dollars, but only the clads. imagine that!!!
al h.
Very well said Keets!
Steve
You better hope Corso doesn't see that coin! Very nice strike, eye appeal and steps! Besides my coin, I'm aware of only one other like it and that's the B. Nagengast example!
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>This one looks pretty good to me: FS 53s -mark- >>
Thanks Mark but everyone here has already seen that crummy coin! lol
Now I need to go and look at Corso's collection for about the third time
so I can tell him what I think of it.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Wondercoin
<< <i>I just picked up the PCGS-MS65FS POP 1/0 example for Justhavingfun. I suspect he will be pleased when he sees it next year upon his return to the states.
Wondercoin >>
Is there any chance that you could give us a full description in respect to it's strike, condition and steps? How does it fair against Steve's coin?
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Incidently, Steve had an MS64FS I assume? What did you think of that coin?
Wondercoin