What is your opinion of the most significant/pressing problem with the hobby today?

Longacre

If you had to come up with the most significant problem in the hobby today, what would it be and why?

tradedollarnut

Grade inflation.

my3cents

"BAD" e-bay auctions

ziggy29

Too many people with too much money chasing the same coins I want.

haletj

Inconsistent grading.

greghansen

Conflicts of interest with the larger more important players in the industry. The free market system works best when there are arms length transactions between equally informed participants. Anything that shifts that balance of power and/or access to information, damages the integrity of the marketplace.

K6AZ

Dealer hype and support for artificially high prices.

RYK

Problem: Not enough 1854-D $3's.

Why?: All of those who want one cannot find a nice one at a reasonable price.

The real issue: Prices are getting squeezed up in many areas of the market such that items that were once considered affordable are no longer.

BigGreek

One word... plastic!

Russ

The dearth of deep cameo 1965 SMS Kennedy Halves.

Russ, NCNE

nwcs

The bottom feeders who ruin people's savings with false statements of rarity or grade and sometimes with just flat-out fraud.

PhillyJoe

Bottom tier slabbing companies/ebay/newbies

"1957 Proof 70 Deep Cameo Franklin, CERTIFIED, trends at $250,000, $1 starting, N/R"

Joe

TomB

In my opinion the worst problem of today is the same as the worst problem we have seen in the past, and that is that people buy coins without knowing enough about them. I'm not writing about 50 cent bargain box coins that are an impulse buy; I'm writing about the vast majority of collectors who actively buy coins for their own enjoyment, and for future return on investment, yet who do not research what they are buying before they put their money down. Doing proper research does not end with looking up a price in a guide sheet, rather, it entails knowing something about a niche and then applying that knowledge to protect oneself. This extends into grading accurately and consistently, spotting problem coins, understanding original mintage vs extant population, having a feel for grade population curves, knowing where guide books are ahead or behind the market, understanding the look that various issues come with and generally making sound hobby decisions. This might all fall under the umbrella of having enough discipline to gain the knowledge required to protect oneself while they are in the hobby/industry. I believe all other numismatic problems arise out of a lack of discipline.

flaminio

My bank account.

jdsinva

I would say the lack of any certification for grading skills and a single grading standard.

This is a problem because it allows too many transactions to be made for which people can apply their own standards or grading companies to slab coins that may or may not be liberally graded.

I go to a local show and the man behind the table has a coin marked MS64 PL. . .I look at the coin and feel it's AU cleaned. The dealer believes he's correct. . .I feel I'm correct.

PCGS' MS63 may be NGC's or ANACS' MS64 which is PCI's MS65. And the home-made slab market is just proliferating.

Or maybe there needs to be an independent organization to consistantly and regularly evaluate the grading companies according to a specific standard. This independent, third party reporting might help keep the slabbers honest in their grading.

I'm not sure if there is a correct answer but there has to be something better than what is happening now.

Jeff

coinguy1

<< <i>In my opinion the worst problem of today is the same as the worst problem we have seen in the past, and that is that people buy coins without knowing enough about them >>

I think TomB nailed it. If this problem could somehow be remedied, the others would eventually take care of themselves.

Russ

The problems noted in this thread would have little, if any, impact if every collector took Tom's post to heart.

Edited to add: Coinguy1 is a genius. Quick on the keyboard, too.

Russ, NCNE

flaminio

This old poll seems apropos to this thread...

Bikingnut

Scammers on ebay.

Longacre

<< <i>Conflicts of interest with the larger more important players in the industry. The free market system works best when there are arms length transactions between equally informed participants. Anything that shifts that balance of power and/or access to information, damages the integrity of the marketplace. >>




This is interesting...Has anyone ever done any research as to whether there are actual conflicts in the industry (in terms of corporate structures/cross ownership)?

braddick

<< <i>Dealer hype and support for artificially high prices. >>

Dealer hype and support for artifically toned prices.

alergar

eBay BIDIOTS

orie

Big players bidding up the their coins at auctions with a shill buyer to put an artificial big price in order to sell the coin at a 10% discount from a bs price. This has always been sop and will remain sop.

That said, this game is played on a more level playing field since the advent of the information highway.

Hedger

Plastic, high prices, not knowing if a coin was tampered with for sure unless you buy the plastic. Leaves me no choice exept to buy high priced plastic because that's all that's left. There are fewer nice coins in dealers stock to buy unless you buy plastic for a large sum just because that's just the way it is now. I may just slab all the stuff I have that is worth slabbing and move on.

morgannut2

THE PROBLEM IS LACK OF INDUSTRY WIDE MINIMUM STANDARDS BROADLY RECOGNISED AND SUPPORTED BY EXAMPLES AND RESEARCH THAT LEAD TO GRADE INFLATION AND EVEN BODY BAG mistakes----For example, one problem is the lazy, cheap, and ignorant disinterest by all the major TPG's in a scientific investigation of chemical composition and common molecular identifiers of altered color on silver/copper coins. Ya, ya, You know it when you see it, but there's are real, testable, repeatable ways to instrumentially & chemically prove or disprove this--- if your eye detects AT by the preception of variable wavelenths comprising "white" light. ------ How about a fixed NGC/PCGS/ANACS definition of PL and DMPL with actual clear refective distance given in inches (or mm), that is sponsered by the A.N.A. at a broad conference??? Or, instead of showing all of TDN's lovely coins (sorry TDN) at shows, how about a traveling group of the most popular series with MIMINUM condition for that MS grade to show collectors, and especially YOUNG NUMISMATISTS?

techeff

Pop reports!

PR70

<< <i>"BAD" e-bay auctions >>

lloydmincy

How about:

So many complaining the prices are too high/coins are "watered stock"/overpriced, and naive collectors buying without knowing much about them.

Is that not the time to SELL???

lloydmincy

Definitely Gradeflation.

ARCO

Lack of consistent grading. The fact that there exists a "crack out" game with the reputable grading companies is testament to the problem of inconsistent grading. For circulated coins, this is much less of a problem, but for expensive MS coins, you had really, really, really understand the market and grading before you spend money in the five figures.

Tyler

dorkkarl

<< <i>What is your opinion of the most significant/pressing problem with the hobby today? >>

extreme overhyping of coins in plastic.

the value of PLASTIC is hyped way, way disproportionately to COINs.

you can't hardly see a coin advertised anymore w/out 3 or 4 letter acronyms behind their grades.

K S

michael

what tomb said

and common coins available by the boatload raw but when certified at high gaga grades make the coin worth many multiples sometimes 100 times or more its multiple from raw to a high graded holder then if cracked out loses 70% 80% 90% 95% or more of its value again to be that raw coin worth not much to a few dollars more raw along with many hundreds to thousands of others

michael

magikbilly

Coins listed as "once housed in a VF3 30 slab and now graded XF45, this coin ...."
Inconsistent grading - 62's that become 64's and everyone knows they were 62's - or are they 64's? Are some now 66's? A point or so disagreement one way or the other is one thing - but changes of more than that bother me. The money seems to follow the slab insert, no longer the coin in some cases. Look at what the current owner had NCS do to one of TDN's beloved $'s for - an upgrade presumably. Just because it is slabbed doesn't make it so. The slab insert is like my grade or what you have to say - an opinion. It is not the word of Cakeman.

Billy

PS - I did not think lack of self education by the consumer needed to be listed - but I will say it anyway. Read before you bleed!

Nickelback

THE PROBLEM IS LACK OF INDUSTRY WIDE MINIMUM STANDARDS BROADLY RECOGNISED AND SUPPORTED BY EXAMPLES AND RESEARCH THAT LEAD TO GRADE INFLATION AND EVEN BODY BAG mistakes...

morgannut2 has an honest and responsible interpretation. Even though his answer is comprehensive, it doesn't include the "non-scientific" reasons why people collect who simply aren't interested in scienteific validation. The fact is that we have more people interested in numismatics than ever before, who are able to purchase more while being generally less informed - while being (generally) more wealthy and who collect for their own particular interests has changed a lot about how they interpet the collecting environment. The popularity of coin collecting and investment prospects has recently drawn those who may have had only a passing interest previously. It's not right but mayby it's one of the reasons why the industry is where it is...

TPG's are in the same buisness and will probably not agree on his recommendations any time soon. They are competing against each other. Hey, it's enomomics .......! general business sense. "Industry-wide" in this industry is an oxymoron the way I've read it, but I hope any standardization possible will eventually occur.

Who knows? Thanks for the forum's availability to vent!

MrEureka

Interesting. Nobody has mentioned coin doctoring. IMHO, that's the most serious problem because it (often) permanently damages coins. All the other problems are temporary and a zero sum game. In other words, in the long run, the other problems don't matter.

291fifth

The slow death of the middle class collector base.

fivecents

Over grading and third world slabs.

notlogical

from a kids point of view it's mean dealers at shows. My dad got me started into coin collecting and then some really nice people here like frattlaw, boiler78, dennis88 and other people have really helped me and my collection. So I thought the people at shows would be nice and helpful too. But all of the dealers I have met at shows have been really mean. They don't want to answer any questions. They ignore you. They act like I don't know anything or have any money to spend or just show you junk. Sometimes it makes me feel like quitting when the only time I really meet other coin people at shows they are mean. I can see why not many kids collect coins.

magikbilly

Hi there
well, you can't judge a book by the cover anymore than you can judge a dealer just because he is a dealer. I know the type you mean - when I was a kid Pre-slab days) the bourse floor was a very smoky weird place filled with big grumpy people chewing cigars and eating pastrami and handling large amounts of money who seemed to want nothing more than for me to go away instead of asking "can you show me how this is die polish and those are hairlines?". While some dealers may still fit into that description (minus the smoking) - I should think many are going to be nice and helpful - they want you to return. By the same token the dealers are there to make money, not play 20 questions. However, to get your $$ they ought to be nice and willing to explain things and answer questions - ESPECIALLY about a coin or type of coin you may be purchasing - maybe from them. Also, try waiting until the guy is not doing a $1700 transaction. Who decides who gets your money? YOU decide - spend whatever you are spending with someone else who actually cares and leaves you happy. Perhaps the BST room here - full of great people I am sure.

Best,
Billy

Coinhusker1

<< <i>from a kids point of view it's mean dealers at shows. My dad got me started into coin collecting and then some really nice people here like frattlaw, boiler78, dennis88 and other people have really helped me and my collection. So I thought the people at shows would be nice and helpful too. But all of the dealers I have met at shows have been really mean. They don't want to answer any questions. They ignore you. They act like I don't know anything or have any money to spend or just show you junk. Sometimes it makes me feel like quitting when the only time I really meet other coin people at shows they are mean. I can see why not many kids collect coins. >>



There are many dealers and collectors willing to help kids -- don't get frustrated. I went through that when I was a kid as well.

Just continue to (politely) ask questions and get help, and go back to the ones who are willing to take the time to help. There are many dealers and collectors who care about the future of the hobby, and many have kids themselves.

Treating kids badly is very short-sighted and not smart from a business standpoint -- they lose future customers, and other collectors look dimly upon dealers who treat kids badly.

That being said, try to be considerate of dealers as well -- try to ask questions when they are not as busy or not swamped with other customers. They will appreciate it and be more willing to help.

lclugza

Greedy speculators running up the price of coins that aren't really that rare (key dates, CC Morgans, 1936 Proof halves, etc.)

I would also say a lack of TIGHT grading standards which causes the "crack-out game."

foodude

The most significant/pressing problem is the one noted by MrEureka- coin doctoring, followed by the longtime problem noted by Tom B- people buy coins without knowing enough about them.

On the later, particularly newbies. The dealer you buy a coin from should be able to answer at least basic to somewhat advanced questions about the coins he/she sells. As far as the esoteric questions, those are for bonus points.

SDCollector

eBay. By far the biggest problem in the hobby today. It has become the perfect market place for unethical sellers.