1969-S Lincoln Double Die PCGS MS64 - FAKE!

Datentype · December 16, 2004 5:45AM

Ebay Link

Beware: This coin is not what it is being sold as. Maybe I'm turning into the Ebay Gestapo but like the fake No S Lincoln that was sold for multiple thousands, this one has potential to cost a buyer thousands and if we put the heat on him, maybe he will shut it down.

dbldie55 · December 16, 2004 5:56AM

I sent a question asking for an image of the doubled die cent he is listing as all he has are images of a machine doubled cent.

RBinTex · December 16, 2004 6:40AM

Have a feeling (someone getting ripped) won't be a problem

See U.S. Coin Forum thread on same subject

segoja · December 16, 2004 10:35AM

My question to the seller:

Could you please let me know why PCGS missed this as a double die? This is a very rare variety and very valuable, so I'm shocked a reputable service would not recognize this variety. The pictures you show are machine doubling, not the valuable double die you talk about in your descriptions. I've sold one of these a few years ago in a PCGS holder, however, it was "labled" double die by PCGS and was a different coin than you show.

Just curious!

Thanks!

James

COINDOG · December 16, 2004 11:44AM

This is not a true doubled die cent !! BUYER BEWARE !!!

Datentype · December 16, 2004 11:06PM

I have had several emails with the seller and he is adamant the coin is a type II double die and there is ahuge market for a coin like that - whatever

ellewood · December 16, 2004 11:09PM

I'm not sure that anyone really has the RIGHT to shut him down. He is showing the actual PCGS holder in the photos.....so....if someone wants to sell what they think is a Dbl Die cent that PCGS DID NOT recognize as a Dbl Die....they should have the right. If those are actual close ups of this particular coin...then he is not misleading anyone by this auction. I sure as heck would NOT buy it...but someone out there in the eBay world will. I'm not into "error" cents...but I'm sure there are hundreds/thousands of coins out there that collectors have submitted to PCGS thinking that they WERE error coins...and PCGS did not recognize it. This is probably one of them. JMHO....

Datentype · December 16, 2004 11:18PM

I'm sure there are lots of examples but this would mean it's Okay to sell a Wayne Gretzky autograph penned by me? Slightly different maybe, but he's still selling it as something it is not.

BowTieCoins · December 17, 2004 4:46AM

Sellers like this should be kicked off e-bay for good. They hurt the whole market. I am going to send a complaint.

BowTieCoins · December 17, 2004 4:58AM

Complaint sent, via e-bay security center.

Coppernicus · December 17, 2004 5:04AM

This guy's an twit and a dishonest one at that. He's selling a $100,000 coin with no reserve?!? The coin exhibits machine doubling and is worth MAYBE $5.00 in the slab. Of course, PCGS could have missed the fact that it's a DDO.

Mike

RBinTex · December 17, 2004 6:04AM

"Complaint sent, via e-bay security center"

Chris or Katrina,

What's the link for that?

segoja · December 17, 2004 10:52AM

His response to my e-mail:

A little wishy washy:

Pcgs Has Also lost my last 4 coins & dose not Know were they are It has been 18 weeks now Not a very reputable service but they are the best human service we have This 1969-S Double Die Is like the 1995 Double Die as you can see from the photos. There is another variety of the 1969-S Double Die That has the IN GOD WE TRUST, LIBERTY & 1969 doubled Strong Like the 1972 Double Die.This one is not that type.It is a Great & Rare Quality Error like the 1995 Double Die !!! I have revised The auction to Include These facts There is a great market & Need for a Type II 1969-S DD as collectors ar showing They love the 1995 DD Why should we not have a 1969-S DD Type II like the 1972 Type II DD Thank You! & Have a Great Week Thank You For The Help !! Harvey

Gandyjai · December 17, 2004 7:40PM

Very interesting!
Thanks for the "heads up"

Brian
************************

I LOVE

Ikes!

RBinTex · December 18, 2004 10:46PM

Oh My God! It's up over 10k!

If it goes to 15k or above someone REALLY will get screwed!

(unless of course it's another scumnuker WITH a credit card on their "alternate" eBay ID - get it

)

Steve · December 18, 2004 11:21PM

Roger, isn't someone getting "screwed" now if this coin actually sells? I wrote to the seller and told him to cancel the auction now before he gets into more trouble. The price has gotten too high for this to be allowed to complete. Steve

itsnotjustme · December 19, 2004 3:57AM

I see 84 in MS65RD, 94 in MS66RD and 8 in MS67RD. He state in the title Double Die and Pop Top. It is neither. This is clearly misleading. The real thing only has one red coin graded.

I e-mailed the seller and warned fraud of over $10,000 has a much larger legal ramification than a $100 scam. Suggested he send it to PCGS under the error service to confirm the Dbl Die and get it on the holder if real.

Datentype · December 19, 2004 3:57AM

The response I got: "Thank You For your time. But What is machine doubling . I do see double on the coin as the photos show LIBERTY 1969 & the S Mint What would be the official grade for this type of coin I sent it to PCGS & Paid for error Grading they told me nothing but sent me a Regular Grading back so I listed it as what My friend & I thought it was? Thank You Again for Your Help!! Your friend! Harvey"

itsnotjustme · December 19, 2004 3:59AM

Seller is also keyword spamming hereLink

Reported.

RBinTex · December 19, 2004 4:03AM

One other thing most likely widely known around here but I didn't notice mentioned, is that the REAL one has the motto doubled as well.

Datentype · December 19, 2004 4:20AM

itsnotjustme, good call.

MoneyLA · December 19, 2004 4:23AM

There is a world of difference between a double die and machine doubling, and even posting the correct scans of the coin does not cancel the error that the seller is using the wrong terminology for selling the coin.

cheers, alan

roadrunner · December 19, 2004 5:07AM

Is there really a Harvey XXX Coins in Liberty, NY?

roadrunner

Justhavingfun · December 19, 2004 6:45AM

Good for you guys! This is a real service you just did. To me, that ad for the coin was totally low. And that silver dollar ad, too. Ugh.

I don't understand how people like that can live with themselves.

Just Having Fun

RELLA · December 19, 2004 7:27AM

Seems the seller does have a VERY loyal bidder, though

: megacoinvault

RELLA

Russ · December 19, 2004 11:58PM

He cancelled all the bids with this explanation:

<< <i>Wrong Discription Double Die Only an Error Coin Thank You For Your Bids >>

Russ, NCNE

sonofagunk · December 20, 2004 3:43AM

Funny thing is that he didn't change the description. Only put a disclaimer at the bottom (but to give him credit is it a large one)

Which one of you bid $119K?

itsnotjustme · December 22, 2004 6:54AM

Auction cancelled by e-bay...

Datentype · December 22, 2004 7:38AM

Ebay actually cancelled an auction! That is the first I have seen. There are a few lawsuits and touchy things going on at Ebay, so maybe they are starting to become more responsible - if so, that would be a huge improvement from the past. Good work by everyone putting the heat on the seller and Ebay.

segoja · December 22, 2004 11:59AM

Looks like the good guys won again!

Hopefully we can keep the market place alive and well for all the good intentioned dealers/collectors/investors!

Let's keep up the AWESOME WORK!!!

Justhavingfun · December 22, 2004 12:17PM

Congratulations!

eBay's usual refusal to do anything in situations like this just infuriates me.

I saw a guy advertising a US Philippines 10 centavo (dime-sized coin) as pop 1/0, and I wrote to him and said I personally had two better (same slabber). He said he'd think about it and of course did nothing and when I wrote to eBay, of course, they did nothing either.

But that was before I really found these message boards, and maybe it was the cumulative affect of all those hornet bites you guys sent to eBay that moved them to act. In any case, again, Congratulations and best wishes.

Just Having Fun

1969-S Lincoln Double Die PCGS MS64 - FAKE!

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