Help! Burning mad, at myself, the seller, and the horse he rode in on
dorkbar
Posts: 426 ✭✭✭
Here's a familiar problem I hope some of you wise, calm people can help me with. Most of the details will remain scrambled to protect the idiot (me) and the scumbag (the seller).
I, a relative newbie, bid on and won a raw (first mistake) Morgan on Ebay that was advertised in very high mint state. The seller stated he had just bought it at a show and it "was graded" at the grade he was advertising, I presume by the dealer who sold it to him, because the seller said he, despite having 30 years in the business, wasn't much of a Morgan grader (red flag #1). At this point, MY little mind said, "OK, sounds good, he bought it for $$ and now wants to sell it for $$$, which is fine. At the price I paid, no problem--I still come out fine, and he makes a few quick bucks.
The coin, pictured from several angles, was beautiful, with strong strike and nary a mark obv. or rev. In my mind, we had a middlemanned coin from a dealer that would come back MS65 and be fine, or MS66 (better yet), or anything approaching what was advertised a bonus. I'm no expert, but it all looked so nice and tidy...
You know what comes next. I just received the "cleaned" kiss of death from PCGS.
Now, please tell me--and let it be right down to the caliber of the bullet and who dies first--what I do RIGHT NOW!!!!
The seller is an ANA member. He said in his auction returns were welcome, but it's been nearly two months now, so I'm guessing that's out, but if he wears that membership on his sleeve, it must carry some nonsleazeball requirements to get. I presume the, um, gentleman (if there was, in fact, a gentleman) who sold the Morgan to him from his little table had all sorts of certification as well and has been a straight shooter for the 40 years he's been dealing until I came along indirectly. The only guy with no sheepskin, a pin for a head, and a handful of expensive nothing is ME.
Believe me, I've taken some lumps during the learning curve, mostly due to overeagerness or wishful thinking, but I truly believe in this case I've been at least slightly misled, and the amount in question is in the mid-three figures, so I'd rather not chalk this one up to experience.
I've held off feedback for the auction while awaiting the grading, and of course my worst fears have been realized. So at least I can blow the whole thing sky high if need be. But my second inclination is to take a deep breath and seek a slightly more elegant solution.
So I come to you, my friends, hat it hand (mainly because my head is about to explode). My mind is not right, so you must do the thinking for me. It will be better that way.
Many thanks for your help in this matter. And while you're tearing me a new one, remember I've already been down there ripping away myself, so if you'd like to leave YOUR mark, you'd better bring a shovel.
I, a relative newbie, bid on and won a raw (first mistake) Morgan on Ebay that was advertised in very high mint state. The seller stated he had just bought it at a show and it "was graded" at the grade he was advertising, I presume by the dealer who sold it to him, because the seller said he, despite having 30 years in the business, wasn't much of a Morgan grader (red flag #1). At this point, MY little mind said, "OK, sounds good, he bought it for $$ and now wants to sell it for $$$, which is fine. At the price I paid, no problem--I still come out fine, and he makes a few quick bucks.
The coin, pictured from several angles, was beautiful, with strong strike and nary a mark obv. or rev. In my mind, we had a middlemanned coin from a dealer that would come back MS65 and be fine, or MS66 (better yet), or anything approaching what was advertised a bonus. I'm no expert, but it all looked so nice and tidy...
You know what comes next. I just received the "cleaned" kiss of death from PCGS.
Now, please tell me--and let it be right down to the caliber of the bullet and who dies first--what I do RIGHT NOW!!!!
The seller is an ANA member. He said in his auction returns were welcome, but it's been nearly two months now, so I'm guessing that's out, but if he wears that membership on his sleeve, it must carry some nonsleazeball requirements to get. I presume the, um, gentleman (if there was, in fact, a gentleman) who sold the Morgan to him from his little table had all sorts of certification as well and has been a straight shooter for the 40 years he's been dealing until I came along indirectly. The only guy with no sheepskin, a pin for a head, and a handful of expensive nothing is ME.
Believe me, I've taken some lumps during the learning curve, mostly due to overeagerness or wishful thinking, but I truly believe in this case I've been at least slightly misled, and the amount in question is in the mid-three figures, so I'd rather not chalk this one up to experience.
I've held off feedback for the auction while awaiting the grading, and of course my worst fears have been realized. So at least I can blow the whole thing sky high if need be. But my second inclination is to take a deep breath and seek a slightly more elegant solution.
So I come to you, my friends, hat it hand (mainly because my head is about to explode). My mind is not right, so you must do the thinking for me. It will be better that way.
Many thanks for your help in this matter. And while you're tearing me a new one, remember I've already been down there ripping away myself, so if you'd like to leave YOUR mark, you'd better bring a shovel.
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Comments
Contact him and calmly tell him the problem and try to work it out.
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What you do next depends on his response. But that is where I'd start.
WH
You bought at a grade that was the dealer's opinion, period. You had a chance to disagree with the grade when you first received it, but didn't.
I presume the coin was sold without a guarantee that PCGS would agree with the grade? If that's the case, then it's your coin.
Welcome to the boards.
I would first ask you, "Does the coin appear cleaned?"
Then, I would add: Sometimes grading companies make mistakes, cleaning is a "relative" term, there are some obviously cleaned coins that are slabbed, and based on what you have written, I am not sure you were (necessarily) wronged.
I hope my response did not require vaseline.
Good luck,
Robert
Good luck with the seller. I'd ask for help, but wouldn't expect much. Several thoughts, use expedited service when getting a coin holdered so it doesn't take so long if you're worried. Buy holdered coins if you're really worried. Look at the coin when it gets home from grading and see if you agree with the no-grade. If you can't return the coin and you believe it has been cleaned, send it to ANACS for a net grade. You'll recover some of your loss.
Don
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
1) I tell the seller I want to return the coin now before I send it to PCGS or;
2) If I send it into PCGS and it comes back a different grade/cleaned, that I can return it at that time.....
I've never had a problem....... yet.
You mentioned that your worst fears came true. Here is Rule #2. If you buy from someone without seeing the coin in person and there is any doubt in your mind about the coin when you receive it, send it back for your refund.
Rule #3 is. A collector has to take responsibility for his actions. Tough to swallow but its the truth.
Welcome to the boards. This one looks like it will be a very hard and expensive lesson for you.
Ken
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>The only dealer I've ever bought raw Morgans from, some inexpensively, that will guarantee the raw Morgan to grade at the grade advertized or higher is Rare Coin of New Hampshire (www.rare-coins.com) with a full no questions lifetime refund. Other dealers here on the forum also give returns for bagged coins, but you need to know who you're dealing with or it's buyer beware. I'd offer to recompense the seller his profit as well as costs to resell and see if he'll give part of your money back. Remember he didn't claim to know a cleaned coin on sight, anymore than you did when you first recieved it. >>
There is another large dealer who offers this grading guarantee, and that is Dale Williams of Collector USA. I've bought many raw Morgans from them, never had any bodybag, and nine out of ten have graded higher than their grade at PCGS.
First step...
Contact him and calmly tell him the problem and try to work it out
roadrunner
<< <i>To frequently publish my statement of return privileges, which will allow my customers a designated period of time in which to return numismatic material for a refund, except bullion or bullion-related material may not be returned for a refund. Said period of time shall not be less than fifteen (15) days from the recorded date of receipt or other transmittal of said material or not less than ten (10) days after my customer's receipt thereof or my attempted delivery thereof to my customer, whichever time period shall be the earlier. If a customer submits a misdescribed or overgraded coin to a certification service for authentication or grading and notifies me of such submission within ten (10) days of my date of mailing or other delivery, I will continue to recognize his/her return privilege for thirty (30) days after my customer's receipt of said coin from me. >>
The portion in bold italics appears that way on the ANA web site. Since it's been nearly two months, and he didn't state he was an expert in the Morgan series, I would think that he would not be obligated to refund any amount to you for the coin.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson