Why is it that no one collects "S" mint gold?

RYK

This question was posed on the proof gold, etc. thread. I wrote my response (below), but I thought it an interesting topic for further discussion if anyone is interested. If it is like other rare date gold topics, it will quickly and quietly fade into internet oblivion...

For whatever reason, despite that there are a number of rare and interesting "S" mint gold coins that one could collect, including the extremely rare and expensive 1854-S $2.50 and $5, the unique 1870-S $3, the Pacquet reverse 1861-S $20, the No Motto 1866-S $5, $10, and $20, the huge "S" mint shipwreck hoards (Brother Jonathon, SS Central America, and, now, the SS Republic), and the California gold rush (phew, what a list), collecting "S" mint gold has never really caught on in the way that C, D, and even O mint gold has. Perhaps, the latter series are shorter and therefore more easily completed. Perhaps the Civil War tie-in to the southern mints is more compelling a story than the California Gold Rush. But the main reason, IMO, is that no one has ever promoted it. David Bowers, when he wrote his tomb on the California Gold Rush, had the opportunity to promote it, do a date-by-date analysis, etc. but did not pursue it. I know not a soul who collects "S" mint gold as a collecting theme.

F117ASR

Cause the mintmarks CC, & O are not seen anymore. They look cool. S is on every proof set so it's not special. I know this is why I like those mint marks.


lol. J/k

Longacre

Is Bowers dead?!?

I started to form an S gold type set, but then got talked out of it. The reason was that S gold has never been popular and never will. I heard from a decent source that Kagin's might be trying to make a market for them, though.

Nic

Just MHO. Too many coins, many expensive and hard to locate, with a complete set near impossible. The other mintmarks can be done. K

atarian

tell ya what send all your unwanted S minted gold coins to me ill pay shipping ;-)

MrEureka

Same reason nobody collects "P" or "O" mint gold, I guess.

ccex

I wish I could afford to collect "S" Mint gold in any U.S. series. For what it's worth, I favor S mint gold for my type set. The last coin I bought for my tyope set was a 1901-S eagle, since I am a frustrated Barber quarter collector.

RYK

Same reason nobody collects "P" or "O" mint gold, I guess.

My New Orleans Gold coins and my Philadelphia Gold coins.

mrearlygold

<< <i>Same reason nobody collects "P" or "O" mint gold, I guess. >>







Yeh who would want any of that afterall. Especially when there's so many nice moderns to buy.


Tom

Reece

I sat next to David McCarthy of Kagins looking at lots of coins at the Bowers and Merena coin auction at the last Las Vegas show and started to talk gold since we were both looking at auction lots and I asked him why they were stocking so many S mint gold coins since I thot that nobody collected them, and he told me that they are going to write a book about S mint gold and try to promote it. He said he thot it was undervalued and an overlooked area, I said gook luck!!

darktone

I have all the $5 lib S mints from the 1900's including the overdate. Does this count? mike

Julian

I have a client who is quite serious about S mint $5 and $10.

GoYankees

<< <i>Is Bowers dead?!?

I started to form an S gold type set, but then got talked out of it. The reason was that S gold has never been popular and never will. I heard from a decent source that Kagin's might be trying to make a market for them, though. >>



For this reason alone, if I had the dough I'd start one now.

eyoung429

Only reason that I don't collect them is that they are currently (probably for a LOOOONG time) outta my price range.

I will just have to live with drooling over them.

Please make sure that all are slabbed so I don't mess them up.

Baley

Actually, I have a small, ongoing type set of S mint gold, including so far a quarter eagle, a couple of half eagles, an eagle, and a couple of double eagles. My oldest S mint gold coin is an 1855-S half eagle (if only it were just ONE year older!) Still need a few coins; this is a subset of my main C-S-G US type set.

rhedden

"S" mint gold is a risky investment. Many of the early coins are rare in high grade and therefore very expensive. However, periodically someone discovers a shipwreck or hoard of them in Unc., and certain dates become common and lose 80% of their value overnight. Case in point: BU 1857-S double eagle. That is a game of Numismatic Russian Roulette I don't want to play.

Regulated

As to the shipwreck argument, it is generally true of Double Eagles, but doesn't seem to apply to small denomination gold - none of the major shipwreck hoards (including what we have seen from the Republic, Central America, Br. Jonathan or the Yankee Blade) have included enough better $5s or $10s to have a significant impact on the market. It seems like the small denomination stuff was made for local consumption...

Regulated

For some reason, my first post didn't show up.

The basic gist of it was that the series needs a book and ought to be broken into 4 time periods:

1 - 1854-1866 (No Motto) - Major rarities and Civil War Dates.

2 - 1866-1879 - Most are rare or unattainable in Mint State; Post-Civil War through the large-scale introduction of paper money in California. Most are rare or unattainable in Mint State.

3 - 1880-1907 – Late dates – All are attainable to the average collector in Mint State.

4 – 1908-1930 – 20th Century Gold – many attainable dates with a few stoppers.

Breaking S-Mint issues out this way seems logical to me (as well as a couple of collectors who independently came up with similar time periods on their own). Comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

MrEureka

Breaking S-Mint issues out this way seems logical to me

Not to me. Even if that breakdown helps readers learn what's rare, it creates confusing barriers between same-type coins. However, I like the idea of presenting the coins in a pure chronological order, not one denomination at a time. I think that would tell the story of the SF Mint and its coinage most effectively.

Coinosaurus

There are few date collectors of gold, period. Quite a few branch mint gold collectors though. I would say that the southern and CC gold is somewhat more romantic (in a 19th century sense) than SF or Philadelphia gold. Collectors find that more compelling - the upstart backwater mints vs. the big boys. Carson City had a huge chip on their shoulder about being the little guy compared to San Francisco. And the southern mints obviously had their problems with the whole US of A in the 1840s and 50s.

I think cost plays a part too, there are so many other series that are a lot more accessible than collecting gold by date.

RYK

I often wonder who buys a coin like this 1863-S $5 PCGS AU-55 for $10,000+. There must be some date collectors out there.

Reece

RYK-From what I have been told about the S mints, is that alot of the telemarketers like these coins because they can buy them cheap in regards to trends, then mark them up, and still present them as bargins in regards to the published prices, my first call about a coin came from New World Rarities a telemarketer in New York some years back trying to sell me a 1866-S motto $5 in NGC53 I was dumb enough to pay $8500 for the coin, it was horrible, dipped and very bright, I traded it back to them for a nice 1858-0 $10 in MS60 with some more money, and saw the coin in the next Heritage auction and it brought $2800 not bad for a coin that trends 9250 in 50!! WE all live and learn, no more S mints for me!!

mrearlygold

Interesting. I have a new client who bought that "story" from a "dealer" in NY.

I say no more for now.

Tom

RYK

Ooooh, angry Tom. Must be a good story--no pun intended.

mrearlygold

But I get all the business now so



Tom

RYK

Another happy ending.